Anyone shooting heavier copper in .308?
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Hook'N'Bullet
Well-Known Member
What don't you like about the GMX? I looking to try copper but its either Hornady outfitter with GMX or Sako Blade ($$)
I'm a pencil victim from a "too slow for range" incident. Fox 130 are excellent in my .308, although I now home load
TundB
Well-Known Member
In my experience GMX doesn’t expand well, and Blade makes mess in small deer and its bullet doesn’t come out from Red and fallow and stays inside of body.
Utectok
Well-Known Member
Everybody says shoot light for calibre when shooting copper and they are right. Granted it probably doesn’t matter at 250m or less but if your out there a bit a high bc bullet going fast will still do the business where a heavier slower bullet won’t. Fine if you’re shooting a magnum or something but normal calibres the above is true.
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jthyttin
Well-Known Member
Depending on what you regard as light for calibre...
Taking 308 as example, 130gr and 150gr "like for like" monolithic bullets (same design criteria i.e. similar BC for weight and similar required terminal velocity). 150gr will just about match the velocity at 300y/m, and since it's slower up to that point will probably result in less damage.
300y/m is about the threshold for decent expansion in 308 and those bullet weights, so unless you're looking for more spectacular terminal effects at shorter ranges -> 150gr is better. I think it's usually regarded as "medium weight" for 308.
And the regular disclaimer, manufacturers have different design criteria for different bullets and won't usually communicate those very well. E.g. Barnes in 30cal have vast differences in required terminal velocity. Like said already in this thread 165gr is for magnum speeds and ogive suits better 300WM/WSM (less protrusion into powder space). 168gr is optimized for 308/30-06. Then 150gr matches 130gr in TSX, but requires 200fps more terminal velocity in TTSX... and when you think you have it memorized they go on and change the specs...
I thought peregrine were discontinued.
Utectok
Well-Known Member
I’m really not sure what you’re saying to be honest. As I pointed out I wasn’t talking about magnum calibres or shooting deer less than 250 meters where it doesn’t matter a lot what you use, but light for calibre copper bullets are better then standard weights. Ie standard for .308 is 150gn and copper your better off with between 100-130gn. How do I know this? Shooting hundreds of deer at various ranges from 6m out to 450m. But each to his own mate.
Hook'N'Bullet
Well-Known Member
Yeah I've heard the GMX is too tough. Surprised the blade doesn't exit on larger deer. I thought retained weight and penetration was a selling point. Wonder how they'd fair out on Sika. They're about 65 euro or 55 pound here for a box.
My old man wanted me to load some lead free for him to replace the 180 gr Nosler Partition he have been using for many years, so I told him to go to the shop and buy a pack of the bullets he wanted.
He came back with a pack of 180 gr Nosler E-tip, and I loaded them up for his .308 Sako 85 Bavarian also tryed some 165 and 170gr Sako Blade.
They all shoot very well, and if the rifle is set up in the bench, they stay within a 25mm circle at 100 meters.
This is 4 years ago, and several reds and roes have been shot using them since without problems.
He came back with a pack of 180 gr Nosler E-tip, and I loaded them up for his .308 Sako 85 Bavarian also tryed some 165 and 170gr Sako Blade.
They all shoot very well, and if the rifle is set up in the bench, they stay within a 25mm circle at 100 meters.
This is 4 years ago, and several reds and roes have been shot using them since without problems.
Scotty99
Well-Known Member
The general advice on loading for copper is to reduce bullet weight compared with what you would normally shoot in lead. This is because copper is less dense and lighter than lead and to make the same weight as lead would mean a much longer bullet that may not stabilise well in your rifle. So if you are shooting 160 grn in lead I would look at 130 or 140 in copper.
Also be aware that jump to lands with some copper bullets needs to be quite a bit greater. For instance Barnes Bullets recommend starting at 50 thou off the lands and moving out from there.
I recently loaded 130 grn Barnes TTSX in my .308 but made the mistake of leaving the OAL the same as for lead. The groups were all over the place and I mean all over the place 8 or 9 inches would be a good group. So it’s back to the drawing board loading another load ladder starting at 50 thou off the lands.
Also be aware that jump to lands with some copper bullets needs to be quite a bit greater. For instance Barnes Bullets recommend starting at 50 thou off the lands and moving out from there.
I recently loaded 130 grn Barnes TTSX in my .308 but made the mistake of leaving the OAL the same as for lead. The groups were all over the place and I mean all over the place 8 or 9 inches would be a good group. So it’s back to the drawing board loading another load ladder starting at 50 thou off the lands.
Bustergreen106
Member
150g - 308 - fox ammo - Excellent groups and no runners so far
jthyttin
Well-Known Member
Going to 150gr weight class would be better still. More retained and actual velocity at 300-450m, and less velocity at distances up to that. If there is "like for like" options for your currently selected bullet manufacturer / type, and if you can stabilize the heavier/longer bullets adequately.
Difference is of course less pronounced in 130gr vs. 150gr, but definitely there for 100gr vs. 150gr.
Utectok
Well-Known Member
When you say “it would be better still” is this conjecture or based on actual experience? I believe there is a significant difference.
The GMX has a reputation for not expanding very well at all, it is also discontinued, possibly for that reason. It’s been replaced by the CX range which is getting better reports for reliable expansion.
What is your source for the TTSX needing 200 fps more for expansion than the TSX?
jthyttin
Well-Known Member
Random stuff from the net that I've written down. Only keep info that is same from few sources. Usually posts on different forums, where people are referring to Barnes data or have called to Barnes support (when talking about Barnes bullets).
To be clear, I was referring to these four 30cal bullets not in general. And please mind, some of this info is 10y old and Barnes stopped long ago providing the data on their website. Also expansion is minimal at those velocities, but they're somewhat comparable since criteria is about same for all of them.
- 130gr TSX 1800fps
- 130gr TTSX 1800fps
- 150gr TSX 1800fps
- 150gr TTSX 2000fps
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