approved for a renewal, do i need the docs in my possession to hold the firearms if it doesnt come through ?

[Barkingsnake]

so this is a question for all as i have been involved in a to and fro e mail situation the last couple of weeks regards renewal, and in case the application of the law is differrent across the uk which im thinking not , but im in Scotland

my renewal docs are late-ish coming through (only one week to go before they run out) the firearms team have replied to my queeries by e mail stating i am being renewed and that they are waiting on the certs being printed and posted to me, i have replied this morning though saying that i believe i cannot legally hold the firearms unless im in physcal possession of them and they replied stating that is not the case and as it has been approved im ok!
an obvious concern is - are they wrong ? as i know most of these dept's are now staffed by civvies ? who might not know the legislation

Put my paperwork to Police Scotland in first week of December 2020 for a renewal due in April 2021.
Had some email ping-pong with the FEO (+ explosives certification) as they wanted a pile of supporting photographs.
Did that before Christmas and got a "I'll be back in the New Year." We fast forward to first week of March for a telephone chat.
That was all completed and complicated by a co-terminous ask on both our parts.
I got mine the day before it expired.
They kept me informed all the time (and I did nag) and also told me that they'd been printed and posted five days before the drop dead date.
(Sound's like your FEO)
They were very polite, they did due dillegence.
They seemed to be having / have an awfully dystopian time, like the rest of us.

 

[mealiejimmy]

Part of the problem with Police Scotland is that, in most cases, the FEOs are not based where the decisions on certification are made nor where the certificates are printed out
Case in point: a friend who lives near Aberdeen handed in a an application for a variation to the public desk at Police Scotland Aberdeen.
A few days later he gets a phone call from a lady in firearms admin in Inverness checking if he also wanted a moderator. If his application is successful, the certificate will be printed in Inverness and mailed to him. Previously, this would all have been done in Aberdeen
Also, I recently had reason to contact the senior officer in charge of firearms licensing for all of Scotland north of the central belt - and found that he is based in the police station in the small town of Portree on the island of Skye.

Cheers

Bruce

 

[jer]

so this is a question for all as i have been involved in a to and fro e mail situation the last couple of weeks regards renewal, and in case the application of the law is differrent across the uk which im thinking not , but im in Scotland

my renewal docs are late-ish coming through (only one week to go before they run out) the firearms team have replied to my queeries by e mail stating i am being renewed and that they are waiting on the certs being printed and posted to me, i have replied this morning though saying that i believe i cannot legally hold the firearms unless im in physcal possession of them and they replied stating that is not the case and as it has been approved im ok!
an obvious concern is - are they wrong ? as i know most of these dept's are now staffed by civvies ? who might not know the legislation

I had a similar scenario a few months ago when I was told my renewal certificate would not be with me due to Covid issues and staff only going in to the office periodically. The FEO was very understanding when I said that I needed to go out of my area (South Wales) and travel to Scotland for stalking, I was issued an official e mail that stated the following;
"To confirm, your certificates will be issued prior to the current expiry date of the 30th April 2021, however, due to Covid restrictions in the workplace it may result in your renewed certificates being delayed in the mail.
I can assure you that your certificates will be live on the electronic system here with us and so you will not be in unlawful possession of your weapons."

I think the response I had was certainly sufficient to ensure I would not be in breach of the law and if I was challenged I could rely on the direction I was given by my licensing authority, I saw that scenario as no different than if you had lost your certificates and was waiting for new ones to be issued. If you are comfortable with it why not request a similar e mail.

 

[longtooth]

thanks everyone, the good news is they have arrived today so all is well that ends well, i think as one of the responses above states, police scotland no longer operate on a localised level and while i hand it in locally it may be dealt with anywhere in scotland i guess ? cheers all.

 

[cootster]

if at the point of renewal you have not received your cert back they normally grant you an extension on the system so you are in legal possession even though you have not physically got your cert back. you do not have to be in physical possession of your cert to be in legal possession (no different from sending your cert in for a variation or you lose it) the only thing you can't do is but=y any ammunition. if you are stopped by the police the system will show that you are in ticket

 

[NullMac]

so this is a question for all as i have been involved in a to and fro e mail situation the last couple of weeks regards renewal, and in case the application of the law is differrent across the uk which im thinking not , but im in Scotland

my renewal docs are late-ish coming through (only one week to go before they run out) the firearms team have replied to my queeries by e mail stating i am being renewed and that they are waiting on the certs being printed and posted to me, i have replied this morning though saying that i believe i cannot legally hold the firearms unless im in physcal possession of them and they replied stating that is not the case and as it has been approved im ok!
an obvious concern is - are they wrong ? as i know most of these dept's are now staffed by civvies ? who might not know the legislation

I had an interesting conversation with my FO about this.

Police Scotland realised that if a shooter was left without a renewal and was breaking the law then Police Scotland could be "art & part" i.e. aiding and abetting in breaking the law !

As a result their document processing system has a wee red button which will automatically do the necessary for "time short" documents provided the local guys have done their bit and marked you for renewal. So you don't get a renewal if you don't do the docs in time, but you will not be left without documents if the renewal process was conducted in good time.

The other implication was that they are not going to come and arrest you as they would have participated in breaking the law, a point which any QC would take some pleasure in arguing I am sure.

 

[Sandyb]

i have to say though they were very thorough this time around , spoke at length to my referees, permissions/lease etc and on the home visit even noted after asking me if it was ok ? how much powder and bullet heads, primers etc i had as i home load too ( he physically counted them box by box, noting each type and weight and what id use them for ? -got to say i have no concerns with this ) the guy knew his stuff and i guess he was determining if i knew mine
i have nothing but good things to say about the process and the guy doing the checking , as someone who wants to stay on the right side of the law and recognises a firearm license is a privilege that can be removed -its concerning when it comes down to the wire !

I find the bold bit a bit strange, yes they need to know if you reload, but unless your asking for justification for an increased hold allowance, I’m not sure how I would feel my bullet stock being documented.

They won’t count my pellet tins…

Primers and powders possibly owing they need presentation of an FAC to acquire…

What next?

 

[NullMac]

i have to say though they were very thorough this time around , spoke at length to my referees, permissions/lease etc and on the home visit even noted after asking me if it was ok ? how much powder and bullet heads, primers etc i had as i home load too ( he physically counted them box by box, noting each type and weight and what id use them for ? -got to say i have no concerns with this ) the guy knew his stuff and i guess he was determining if i knew mine
i have nothing but good things to say about the process and the guy doing the checking , as someone who wants to stay on the right side of the law and recognises a firearm license is a privilege that can be removed -its concerning when it comes down to the wire !

How about those items are not regulated by firearms legislation and he has no right to check anything other than loaded ammunition in your possession.

it was kind of funny when he said the chief constable wanted them checking all the permissions physically and he asked where my ground was, and i said i had permissions from the borders, throughout fife and past perth and in to the start of the highlands maybe the delay is waiting on him getting his new hip

That's bollocks mate, he is having you on. Just had a mate apply for a 300 WM and the police did not come and inspect any permissions. But I can check that point with the horses mouth and report back just to be sure.

Sounds like you got a zealot.