Ban an fuel burning cars coming, time to invest in diesel.

[LuckyEddie]

I agree that we mustn’t shoot ourselves in the foot by switching to more expensive forms of energy whilst our foreign competitors don’t. However I must add that I bought a Tesla 6 months ago and it’s fantastic, the future is electric for sure. I still have a defender but if I could convert it to electric I would.
the problem with electric cars is the lack of range on many models, for me it needs to be able to do 200+ miles on a charge minimum, many are still under 200. The Tesla 3 that we have does 330 which is ample, it ridiculously cheap to run compared with diesel, about 3-4p per mile for the leccy. The cars themselves are expensive though.
another thing to remember is that the charging network is expanding rapidly, and the fast chargers are really fast, I can recharge mine from 0-80% in about 30 mins if necessary, so after 300 miles driving you stop for a sandwich a **** and a coffee and by the time you’ve done that it’s good to go.
another benefit is that right now the government are falling over themselves to get you to buy one, there’s interest free loans, grants, there’s no benefit in kind tax and half the chargers out there are free to use! Imagine if your local council gave away free diesel! But ours gives away free leccy...

The issue is initial costs for me.
I bought my Disco 2 some 8yrs ago for £2.5k and intend to run it as long as possible.
Annual costs are around the £1200-£1500 mark. So a new car would have to cost less than £125 per month to make it cost effective for me to change!

 

[Bavarianbrit]

The issue is initial costs for me.
I bought my Disco 2 some 8yrs ago for £2.5k and intend to run it as long as possible.
Annual costs are around the £1200-£1500 mark. So a new car would have to cost less than £125 per month to make it cost effective for me to change!

Drop a few litres of rapeseed oil in on a regular basis at £0.99 per litre rather than £1.20? saves even more, whoops Mr Chancellor I am very sorry.

 

[Tom D]

The issue is initial costs for me.
I bought my Disco 2 some 8yrs ago for £2.5k and intend to run it as long as possible.
Annual costs are around the £1200-£1500 mark. So a new car would have to cost less than £125 per month to make it cost effective for me to change!

My understanding is that its just sale of NEW cars that are being stopped, existing vehicles will still be ok to use so you should be fine. I think diesel will be with us for may years to come, well after 2030 for sure...

 

[243varmint]

There isn't the capacity now to charge all plug in hybrids as it is now. The carbon footprint on these battery cells is horrendous. Digging up half of Australia then shipping raw material to be refined shipping that to make batteries shopping that to make cars
I work in the motor industry and its becoming more and more then thing to have.
Basically there's too many cars on the road. Full stop.
They need to look at hydrogen cells more in my opinion

 

[LuckyEddie]

Drop a few litres of rapeseed oil in on a regular basis at £0.99 per litre rather than £1.20? saves even more, whoops Mr Chancellor I am very sorry.

I already visit Costco If I run short, but a friend and I recycle cooking oil whenever we can get it and that brings it down to 29p/ltr.
You’re allowed 2000 litres a year before you need to declare it!

 

[BryanDC]

Drop a few litres of rapeseed oil in on a regular basis at £0.99 per litre rather than £1.20? saves even more, whoops Mr Chancellor I am very sorry.

It's usually old Merc's that smell like chip shops when driving behind them.

 

[Rusty Gate]

The ban I believe is on sales of new petrol and Diesels. So older cars for the moment will still be able to be used and fuel will be available. I suspect the price of secondhand diesel and petrol engined cars will improve significantly after 2030 so potentially a good investment in a few years.

On the flip side planes will need more batteries to take off so the weight will increase more than the power available so will nevef take off. To produce aviation fuel yoh still need to refine crude so surely there will surely be diesel as its close by its product type. If everything is electric a war would be tricky when an EMP could stop everything in that are...... Zbet the military stock pile diesel & Av-gas!

 

[308tikka]

What is never me tioned on the ‘ethical’ front is the child slave labour in africa digging up the required rare earth metals and lithium for batteries, and that the entire worlds production in a year wouldbe needed just to make the fleet for the UK for a year.

It cant be done and they know it cant be done.

It is to make private transportation a privilege of the wealthy. If youve driven on the motorway during lockdown and seen almost no other cars, you will see what the planners of our future would like to be in the ‘new normal’. Normal people will be taxed into submission.

May 2021 - global ‘reset’ - World Economic Forum (Davos). Think for yourselves.

 

[countrryboy]

Not sure I would call it a scam after all the UK has enough Wind and Tidal power to fulfill pretty much all our needs now and in the future. Surely plonking offshore turbines is a better way than digging up ground after all Bozza is going to plant billions of tree's for the carbon seqestration. What is a scam though and needs stamping out is the current tax avoidance schemes for investing in some of these green ventures and your biomass one is right up there as nothing more than a tax dodge.

I think a scam is the exact term for it.

No doubt they start off with good intentions but almost all the grants/subsides are open to widespread fraud.
The RHI scheme/seindle brought down the stormount government, and plentyfarmers over here heating empty sheds for subs.

Windmills are often quoted as being carbon neutral but when u read the small print that's from when turbine starts turning, so ignoring all ground prep and building works!!
How is that nota scam to say they are carbon neutral.
1 site in has around 20 harvesters working each using about 1000l of desiel a week and that's only about 1/4 of harvesting area.
Never seen so many flashing lights attached to big plant.
The fleet of moxy's carry 30 odd T of stone need to do a 1 way circuit every load for H&S takes an hour to do the loop all wasted desiel.
The fuel bil and carbon footprintl will be frightening and that's before the real construction phase starts.
All just ignored to make them look green.

Fair play with tidal as predictable and regular but wind power is a waste of time.
10 years ago when we had last 2 proper cold winters the 250 odd turbines above my house wouldn't turn for 6 weeks with the long high pressure.
How do folk heat the hoses and drive

 

[BryanDC]

On the flip side planes will need more batteries to take off so the weight will increase more than the power available so will nevef take off. To produce aviation fuel yoh still need to refine crude so surely there will surely be diesel as its close by its product type. If everything is electric a war would be tricky when an EMP could stop everything in that are...... Zbet the military stock pile diesel & Av-gas!

We will just go back to fighting on horseback with swords and bows.

 

[stubear]

So what I've taken away from this thread is that sometime around Q3 2029 I need to purchase a V8 mustang and a D-Max to see me through.

 

[del.gue]

I have just been looking at the mile range for a Nissan Leaf. Two battery options the biggest giving upto 239 miles.
But reading the small print, just like mpg on a normal car, they talk about real world driving conditions.
Does anyone with a current electric vehicle know how much a range is shortened if you have the heater or air con on full blast?
Also at nearly £27k it is still way out of my reach... my cars typically cost a few thousand.

 

[Rasputin]

I think a scam is the exact term for it.

No doubt they start off with good intentions but almost all the grants/subsides are open to widespread fraud.
The RHI scheme/seindle brought down the stormount government, and plentyfarmers over here heating empty sheds for subs.

Windmills are often quoted as being carbon neutral but when u read the small print that's from when turbine starts turning, so ignoring all ground prep and building works!!
How is that nota scam to say they are carbon neutral.
1 site in has around 20 harvesters working each using about 1000l of desiel a week and that's only about 1/4 of harvesting area.
Never seen so many flashing lights attached to big plant.
The fleet of moxy's carry 30 odd T of stone need to do a 1 way circuit every load for H&S takes an hour to do the loop all wasted desiel.
The fuel bil and carbon footprintl will be frightening and that's before the real construction phase starts.
All just ignored to make them look green.

Fair play with tidal as predictable and regular but wind power is a waste of time.
10 years ago when we had last 2 proper cold winters the 250 odd turbines above my house wouldn't turn for 6 weeks with the long high pressure.
How do folk heat the hoses and drive

But the infrastructure requirement is no different to any other form of power plant creation . IIRC the UK actually produces a surplus of wind energy add that to a decent tidal system and there will be zero down time so heating homes etc is a complete moot point.

 

[243varmint]

I have just been looking at the mile range for a Nissan Leaf. Two battery options the biggest giving upto 239 miles.
But reading the small print, just like mpg on a normal car, they talk about real world driving conditions.
Does anyone with a current electric vehicle know how much a range is shortened if you have the heater or air con on full blast?
Also at nearly £27k it is still way out of my reach... my cars typically cost a few thousand.

Just think of a battery in an electric car like a fuel tank.
The more stuff you have on, the more right foot you give it the less range they will do. Simples.
The same as a fuel car, drive it like you stole it, it won't do a lot.

We have customer questioning the range on thier cars but they forget they've got the ac on(electric) they've got the heated seats on (electric) radio on(electric)..... Can you see a pattern emerging.....

 

[Jamsie]

That's fantastic, until the subsidy and freebie tap turns off.

First question. Do you actually get 330 miles range without driving like a granny/undertaker? I'll be very keen for one when you can do 300 miles at normal motorway speeds of 80-90.

There are some serious question marks about the viability of the car market with electric cars because industry professionals state that after 10 years the batteries die, and effectively the car is scrap. The average age of a car on UK roads is 14 years, which implies a massive reduction in travel and a large section of the population losing their mobility.

There are also problems with the viability of the charging network. In effect, there will never be a viable charging network because electric cars will generally be charged at home, so there will be too little demand to make charging stations economically viable under any plausible scenario.

Questions also remain about the economics of electric cars, which only match up when many of the large costs of conventional car ownership are removed - i.e. tax on fuel, vehicle tax, parking charges, congestion charges. When the government stops subsidising EVs, the costs will mushroom.

Since when was the normal motorway speed 80 - 90 MPH. Have I missed something?

Jamsie

 

[Ade8mm]

There isn't the capacity now to charge all plug in hybrids as it is now. The carbon footprint on these battery cells is horrendous. Digging up half of Australia then shipping raw material to be refined shipping that to make batteries shopping that to make cars
I work in the motor industry and its becoming more and more then thing to have.
Basically there's too many cars on the road. Full stop.
They need to look at hydrogen cells more in my opinion

This

 

[Roestalker39]

Seen that BoJo has had another bright idea and decided to bring forward the ban on fuel burning cars.

For whatever the current government does, doing the opposite is probably going to leave you quids in.

Get ready for 2030, buy some diesel storage units, have a few reliable diesel cars on hand, get yourself fuel secure.

Very little confidence in this plan, supposedly going to be planting 75k hectares of trees every year to 'carbon offset'.

1- Where are they getting the land to plant them on?

2- Which cronies will be making a killing on trees like they did on PPE? What kind of trees??

3- Does it matter how well these trees grow? As usual this is optics not meaningful action.

Thoughts?

At least we’ll be lead free

 

[User00040]

So what I've taken away from this thread is that sometime around Q3 2029 I need to purchase a V8 mustang and a D-Max to see me through.

Nah, this will do just fine:





Hail to the mighty V8 for all eternity

 

[countrryboy]

But the infrastructure requirement is no different to any other form of power plant creation . IIRC the UK actually produces a surplus of wind energy add that to a decent tidal system and there will be zero down time so heating homes etc is a complete moot point.

I would say very different due to the scale.
Not many power stations need 350-400K Tonnes of timber removed, with quite a lot of the pulp wood being hauled almost 200 miles 1 way to pulp mill.

But any surplus or energy it produces is really just a bonus, it can't be relied upon.

Bit like an open topped bus for tourists great when the sun is shinning but u still need a fleet of roofed buses parked up for when it's not.
Usually most things are more effecient when ran at optimum speed/load would it not be better just to run the power stations that need to be built anyway for when it's not windy.
I bet the massive desiel bill for building the turbines would sure power some electricity turbines for a while.
That's the problem when no one is honest about the carbon footprint of building them.


On to the biomass side with the subsidies it's not unheard off for whole woods now to be felled and whole trees put to biomass.
Scandalous when ur putting log grade timber to chip.
All for subsidies.
The timber may be carbon neutral but a lot off carbon footprint to get it there, ploughing, harvesting, forwarding, and haulage, most machines will be burning 200l a day

The whole thing really is a brain fart esp in the accelerated timescale.

 

[paul o']

Not many years ago they said buy diesel its cheap and you get more MPG !
But now only part of that was true ! when you think its lower in the chain than Petrol in the cracking flume , Now selling of your 4X4 that you payed out for to Last for ever truck will be worthless and your nuts will hurt for some time after .

When you think Crude oil cost is at an all time low ! but Diesel is going up and up in the UK .

Few links on how its made lol : How is crude oil turned into finished products? .
------
I can't see heating oil run homes / farms other being switch to battery and wind power any time soon with out a massive outlay by the home owners ?.
The battery run cars have a diminishing year in year in life span as iam told ? unsure if true .
---
Tag EDF: Most manufacturers have a five to eight-year warranty on their battery However : , the current prediction is that an electric car battery will last from 10 – 20 years
Nissan warrants that its electric car batteries will last eight years or 100,000 miles, for example, and Tesla offers a similar guarantee.
-------
So at around 10 yrs folks your into a battery swap at : the cost of batteries fell about 80% between 2010 and 2016 according to McKinsey, from $1000 to $227/kWh. Therefore, a new 40kWh battery in 2016 would have cost just shy of £10,000. Some predictions estimate that prices are set to fall below $100/kWh by 2030, around the same time as the government are aiming for 50% of all new vehicles sold in the UK will be electric.
------
So this cheap way of getting around may cost you a lung or the sale of one of the Kids ?
Lets not start on the cost of the car or 4X4 other

tad : Electric car battery leasing​

With any new technology, there is always a fear that things won’t work as expected. So some electric car manufacturers and leasing companies have a solution, to provide customers with reassurance about battery degradation. For instance, Renault offer a finance package, allowing customers to buy a Zoe and lease the battery, which reduces the upfront purchase price and guarantees battery performance up to 75% of the original capacity.
Hmmm Thats good then