BASC initiates legal action against Natural England over gamebird licensing

[enfieldspares]

It isn't over yet. Natural England intend to appeal the ruling:

High Court judgment threatens protections for England’s internationally important wildlife sites

Natural England intends to appeal a High Court judgment arising from a judicial review brought by the British Association for Shooting and Conservation (BASC) concerning gamebird release licensing. Gamebird release licensing was introduced in 2021 to protect internationally important species …

naturalengland.blog.gov.uk

 

[Ratel]

In my time I have worked on different types of shoots as a beat,single handed and Head keeper. I have worked on Private, guest only types of shoot. I have also worked where half the guns were paying guests and also where two or thee days were let to visiting teams of guns. How does one classify a Commercial shoot?
I have hatched and reared from 1000 partridge under bantams, through 5000 pheasants to 32000 pheasants. The large number was a place where I sold eggs,day olds and poults keeping 18000 back for.a syndicate shoot, was that Commercial.
One has to be careful with shoot classification but I am not in favour.of what I deem Commercial, which is imho somewhere where every bird is reared, sold and shot as a proitable business to various teams of shooters.
Thank goodness it's now a Private place with wild birds and sometimes we shoot, sometines we don't, and my main function is deer management.

 

[Camdig]

In my time I have worked on different types of shoots as a beat,single handed and Head keeper. I have worked on Private, guest only types of shoot. I have also worked where half the guns were paying guests and also where two or thee days were let to visiting teams of guns. How does one classify a Commercial shoot?
I have hatched and reared from 1000 partridge under bantams, through 5000 pheasants to 32000 pheasants. The large number was a place where I sold eggs,day olds and poults keeping 18000 back for.a syndicate shoot, was that Commercial.
One has to be careful with shoot classification but I am not in favour.of what I deem Commercial, which is imho somewhere where every bird is reared, sold and shot as a proitable business to various teams of shooters.
Thank goodness it's now a Private place with wild birds and sometimes we shoot, sometines we don't, and my main function is deer management.

Commercial in my mind is shooting 4-5 days a week with bags sold as 500 + bird days, its not uncommon to see 1000 bird days for sale for £60k + and the shooters dont even take a brace home.
The topping up of birds in the season to accommodate more numbers is another gripe.
The syndicate/family that sells a day to help costs is not commercial imo.
Extreme high birds is another pet hate of mine.

 

[Apthorpe]

The specific issue posted is good news.

The biggest problem with issues like this, and the same is true of most country pursuits, is that we are the vast minority of society and therefore our views in the political arena will be of far less interest then the majority that keep politicians in power.

This is a fallacy. Governments do not follow the will of the majority but the will of intransigent small minorities. Nassim Nicholas Taleb has written about this in one of his excellent books.

This is why foxhunting was banned. Most people don't give two hoots one way or the other, and there was certainly no good ethical argument for it, but a small gang of militant lefties just banged on endlessly about it until they got their way. Same for lead ammunition and the even more ridiculous impending ban on trailhunting. Also why so much meat is halal, why the UK recognised Palestine (a truly stupid act), why we've driven many of pur wealth creators out of the country and trashed the economy, and countless other acts of pandering to nut jobs.

I doubt there is any appetite (certainly not with the current Govt) to look at removing restrictions for Badgers etc.

Also I think its about picking your fights rather then wasting lots of money pursuing a losing battle.

 

[Apthorpe]

Commercial in my mind is shooting 4-5 days a week with bags sold as 500 + bird days, its not uncommon to see 1000 bird days for sale for £60k + and the shooters dont even take a brace home.
The topping up of birds in the season to accommodate more numbers is another gripe.
The syndicate/family that sells a day to help costs is not commercial imo.
Extreme high birds is another pet hate of mine.

All good stuff, but this is a can of worms we really do not want to open. You or I may think a shoot putting down tens of thousands of birds is unpalatable, but the nutjobs who'll end up driving regulation of this are not going to see the senible dividing line at the same place you will. Many will think feel putting down 100 birds is grotesque.

I think the correct line to draw is that the whole area is no business of government. So long as there are NHS waiting lists, the colossal scale of medical negligence, inadequate criminal justice, inadequate defence and so on, it is obscene for officials to allocate even one second's attention to this sort of stuff.

 

[Camdig]

All good stuff, but this is a can of worms we really do not want to open. You or I may think a shoot putting down tens of thousands of birds is unpalatable, but the nutjobs who'll end up driving regulation of this are not going to see the senible dividing line at the same place you will. Many will think feel putting down 100 birds is grotesque.

I think the correct line to draw is that the whole area is no business of government. So long as there are NHS waiting lists, the colossal scale of medical negligence, inadequate criminal justice, inadequate defence and so on, it is obscene for officials to allocate even one second's attention to this sort of stuff.

Absolutely agree its way down the pecking order and self regulation is essential, hence the comments on a BASC thread.

 

[Keith Edmunds]

Good Work

 

[enfieldspares]

This is why foxhunting was banned. Most people don't give two hoots one way or the other, and there was certainly no good ethical argument for it, but a small gang of militant lefties just banged on endlessly about it until they got their way.

That's one of the best and most pertinent summary of the matter. And maybe time also to recall that in the Tory side the likes of (or some think "Saint") Ann Widdecombe were also pro hunting ban such that David Cameron removed from her any role of speaking about such in her ministerial portfolio.

 

[enfieldspares]

Extreme high birds is another pet hate of mine.

Or as I and others call them treated as if mere "feathered clay pigeons". That some I hear are using not even 36 gram loads (such as the old duck load of 1 1/4 ounce of #5 in a gun bored half choke in both barrels) but now 42 gram of #4.