BASC opposes new proposals for medical fees

[enfieldspares]

Nick Hurd..Home Office. He'll be the son, then, of Douglas Hurd. The fruit never falls far from the tree.

His father was the Conservative Government Home Secretary who, in 1988, introduced the ban on ALL centrefire pump action and self-loading rifles, and moved five shot pump action and self-loading shotguns to s1.

The Tory Party.

An authoritarian group of people that believes that nobody outside its own clique should own firearms. And then ONLY of a type that they themselves use.

The true friends of the blue collar shooting man. Some people never learn.

 

[Whitebeard]

It was fought by a campaign of letter writing to MSP's
It was fought by a campaign of personal appointments with MSP's
It was fought by our shooting orgs (SACS in particular)
The overwhelming number of responses to the Government consultation were against it.
Yet still it was imposed by our urban based socialist Government.

You talk about shooters standing together - yet you demean the actions of fellow shooters in another part of the UK. You talk utter b@llocks

I think you are talking about airgun licensing, im not and nor is sauer, we are talking about standing up to Police scotland on the medical issue which a few of your contrymen did but on the whole you did not collectively.

Ian.

 

[slider]

SACS statement released today.

https://www.sacs.org.uk/news/gps-and-firearms-licensing-sacs-update

 

[kes]

With respect to all opinions expressed - the issue here is opposition or capitulation - I expected BASC, CA, SACS,NGA to oppose this with all assets at their disposal. It wont happen but it should. So much ******** about online licensing cutting costs, 10 year licences - all this is now behind us the only thing that matters is vocal and unending opposition.
BASC may be stupid, gullible and gulled but it has to see that their membership is down the tubes if they vacillate yet again - their jobs are at risk. Too many shooters are older guys and gals and will potentially end it here and go for 'estate rifles'.
BASC particularly should be hanging their head in shame after, Swift, Ali et al, to build the ten year ,licence up so much and fall so far. I'm out. There is simply too much to complain about.

 

[enfieldspares]

BASC particularly...Ali et al...I'm out.

Welcome. I saw the light last year. It's never too late. I joined SACS.

 

[ss03947]

This all started 5yrs ago when Durham wanted mandatory medical references.

On one of my renewals I was told this "would be made mandatory" one way or the other.

Basc has had 5yr to oppose it & guess what, 5yrs later still in the same boat but this time having to pay for it.

 

[woodmaster]

I was under the impression that the COP was required to issue a FAC unless they had information which may bring into question the good character or suitability of the applicant to be in possession of a firearm, where that possession may bring the safety of the public or individual into danger.
Therefor surely it is the police who need to ask the question of the medical profession as to whether the applicant has any medical condition which may cause such danger.
SO why not turn this on it's head and just refuse to do their work for them. Or has some law been passed which passes the onus onto the applicant to prove their suitability rather than have their suitability disproven.
Again we seen to be jumping through the hoops to effect what is already our right.
Surely our medical records are available through the NHS which if my memory serves me correctly is a part of our government machine.

 

[Miki]

I wonder if this has anything to do with the Jocks bowing down to bullying by Police Scotland and coughing up when told to do so, then the HMISC reporting that paying a fee for the initial letter was a good idea and had been working well in Scotland, i take my hat off to any scottish shooters who stood up to this but to the rest of you, thanks very much
Ian

That's the problem with extortion and blackmail, if the threat doesn't work the financial penalties coerce you into paying. One member reported that it would cost him £50 a week to store his guns with an RFD, i've also seen/heard of 50p to £1 a day per rifle.
When we pointed out that HOG said 'no response = no penalty' we were informed (politely by Police Scotland) 'no response = no certificate'.

When we pointed this out to the shooting organisations none of them did anything ... did you David ?, did you Dr Colin ?, did you Tim ?, did you Jamie, did you Alex ? (actually Alex did, but his members told him to "let it go or step down") so I guess Ian has a point ....

 

[mealiejimmy]

It's true that the shooting organisations have failed to make Police Scotland change it's no GP letter = No certificate policy, but with hindsight, I believe that Police Scotland are so determined to make this policy work, that nothing any of these organisations could have said or done would make any difference. Only a successful legal challenge will make Police Scotland change it's policy.

Cheers

Bruce

 

[mealiejimmy]

SACS statement released today.

https://www.sacs.org.uk/news/gps-and-firearms-licensing-sacs-update

How fe*kin ironic - the Sacs letter was written by their firearms consultant Fraser Lamb, who, in his previous incarnation was Chief Inspector Fraser Lamb, head of Firearms Licensing for Police Scotland, and the man who instituted and operated the no GP letter = no certificate policy

Having said that, it's an excellent letter and probably no-one else in Scotland would have that detailed knowledge of the subject.
In fact he says the "Separate Guidance for Scotland" mentioned the HOG is the letter from the CMO.
If that's the case, someone had better tell Police Scotland, because in all my communications with Police Scotland on this matter - including FOI requests, they have always said that "separate guidance for Scotland" has never been issued!!

Cheers

Bruce

 

[Blue400]

If this was an American issue, the NRA would have sorted it before became an issue.

 

[Miki]

How fe*kin ironic - the Sacs letter was written by their firearms consultant Fraser Lamb, who, in his previous incarnation was Chief Inspector Fraser Lamb, head of Firearms Licensing for Police Scotland, and the man who instituted and operated the no GP letter = no certificate policy
Cheers
Bruce

Yeah, just read it .... our FSL writes like he talks .. fluently in abundence.
A gamekeeper turned poacher

Fraser, you missed the part of the HOG where it stated that separate guidance would be issued by the Scottish Ministers, you know in relation to the "No GP letter = No problem" part ?
Stable door and horses spring to mind.
Still thanks for your efforts..

Alex knows my eMail and phone number or you could walk along Greentowers and pop in for a coffee.

 

[kes]

Government proposals to increase the fee for the grant of a shotgun certificate from £50 to £79.50 with proportionate increases in other licensing fees have been welcomed as fair by the UK’s largest shooting organisation, the BritishAssociation for Shooting and Conservation (BASC).

If agreed these will be the first increases in fees for 13 years.

The proposals are contained in a consultation published today and originated in the work of a Home Office working group which included BASC, the British Shooting Sports Council and the police.

The fee for a shotgun renewal would rise to £49, for the grant of a firearm certificate to £88 and for renewal of firearms certificates to £62. Variations on firearms certificates would be reduced to £20. Coterminous certificates, where both shotgun and firearm certificates are dealt with at the same time would be £90 and then £65 on renewal.

Initial police proposals were for a rise in shotgun certificate fees from £50 to £109.BASC rejected this and asked for the component parts of the licensing system to be fully costed and examined in accordance with the principles of better regulation and Treasury guidelines and taking into account the police move to e-commerce for firearms licensing.

BASC chairman Alan Jarrett said: “We welcome the government’s initiative to involve stakeholders and do the job properly. Those who shoot can have confidence that they are paying a fair price for their certificate which has been decided after a rigorous process founded on solid evidence. We hope to see this proposal implemented after the consultation. I would urge everyone who shoots to make their views known in the Home Office online consultation.”

BASC chief executive Richard Ali said: “I congratulate the Home Office for ensuring that the full process complied with Treasury guidelines and with the principles of better regulation introduced under the last government and built on by this.”

GeoffreyClifton-Brown MP. Chairman of the All-Party Parliamentary Group for Shooting and Conservation, who worked closely with the Home Office on this issue, said:“I believe this is a good result for all sections of the shooting community. It provides a fair basis for fee levels in the future. Under these proposals the police are committed to achieving a cost-effective and consistent service across 42 constabularies. This is a good example of the All-Party Group workingwith BASC and the other shooting organisations, the police and the Home Office to produce an acceptable result and one which protects the shooting community forthe future.”

I 'think' Alan Jarrett resigned as he was responsible for improperly editing a legal report before it went to Council - Stephen Ali we all know about. This was the start of the slippery slope to where we are now - read the hype and weep.

 

[finnbear270]

Seems to me "They" have already achieved a division of our sport, we have a North South divide evidenced here in this very thread.

 

[Eddie P]

Tom D, GP Surgeries are no longer part of the NHS they are private companies contracted to the NHS to provide first call medical services.

Ian

GP practices have never been NHS. They are contracted to provide medical services.

 

[JTO]

If medical checks are going to be the norm, it would be more cost effective for the Home Office/Police to have their own doctors with access to our medical records. I presume all GPs keep their records in digital form these days.
BASC have failed their members yet again by telling us not to pay, but refusing to pay for legal backing for anyone that does refuse.

 

[Hornet 6]

Asking for a medical report and requiring the applicant to pay for it on first application, well maybe.
Asking for a holder to pay for a full medical report on each renewal is absurd when there is no reason to suggest it may be needed.

I'm just about fed up with jumping through hoops and being exploited by the idiots who we pay to uphold the law, the law as decided by government.
We do not pay the police to make up the law as they go to suit themselves.
Furthermore having just put my renewal paperwork in, if i'm asked for a payment to cover a medical I will tell them to stuff it.
If I don't get my renewal at least I will no longer have to behave like an angel incase I get any flack from licensing.

Neil.

 

[Highlandsjohn]

[QUOTE=Hornet I'm just about fed up with jumping through hoops and being exploited by the idiots who we pay to uphold the law, the law as decided by government.
We do not pay the police to make up the law as they go to suit themselves.
Furthermore having just put my renewal paperwork in, if i'm asked for a payment to cover a medical I will tell them to stuff it.
If I don't get my renewal at least I will no longer have to behave like an angel incase I get any flack from licensing.

Neil.[/QUOTE

...and thereby lies the object of the excersize. john

 

[slider]

How fe*kin ironic - the Sacs letter was written by their firearms consultant Fraser Lamb, who, in his previous incarnation was Chief Inspector Fraser Lamb, head of Firearms Licensing for Police Scotland, and the man who instituted and operated the no GP letter = no certificate policy

Having said that, it's an excellent letter and probably no-one else in Scotland would have that detailed knowledge of the subject.
In fact he says the "Separate Guidance for Scotland" mentioned the HOG is the letter from the CMO.
If that's the case, someone had better tell Police Scotland, because in all my communications with Police Scotland on this matter - including FOI requests, they have always said that "separate guidance for Scotland" has never been issued!!

Cheers

Bruce

Agree Bruce, but leopard frequently change their spots, depending on who is paying the bills. That's life after all, you take a job where as a plumber or in a professional position and you use the best of your abilities to serve your employers interests.

Well done to SACS for getting him on board.

 

[slider]

Asking for a medical report and requiring the applicant to pay for it on first application, well maybe.
Asking for a holder to pay for a full medical report on each renewal is absurd when there is no reason to suggest it may be needed.



Neil.

N0body is asking for this unless the initial tickbox form from the GP indicates concerns