BASC response to Firearms Licensing Guidance Consultation

[CarlW]

BASC's firearms team is drafting a response to the consultation and if any forum members have suggestions on amendments that should be made to the draft guidance feel free to either comment below or email me at conor.ogorman@basc.org.uk

I will ensure that all suggested amendments are considered during the drafting of our response.

BASC's initial position is here
https://basc.org.uk/blog/politics/government-could-land-shooting-community-with-48-million-bill/

The consultation documents can be downloaded here:
Statutory guidance to police on firearms licensing

Hi Conor,

Thank you for taking the time to gather our input on this.

My own view on the medical component of the licensing system (and I recognise that this ship might have sailed) is that there is minimal, if any, benefit to be gained from asking doctors to 'certify' their patients (whom they probably rarely see) as 'sane enough to hold a firearms certificate'.

Better, would be to restrict their involvement to placing the enduring marker on every FAC-holder's medical record and requiring them, by exception, to contact the police if any condition arises that gives them cause for concern. No issue, no contact, no problem.

No charge should be levied for attaching the marker, and any financial settlement should be between the police and the NHS.

Again, I am grateful for the opportunity to give my input.

Kind regards,

Carl

 

[finnbear270]

The only way out of this is a judicial review.

 

[finnbear270]

There must be a way to initiate a vote of no confidence AND a winding up order because of inaction.

 

[DuncanR]

Please excuse my ignorance, how much is this GP report? My coterminous ticket is due in12 months.

I have had a, what can best be described as a tiff with my wife’s doctor, over treatment. I am now worried if he gets to write a report it might not be favourable.
RS

My son in law and I were each invoiced £120. Neither of us paid, both received certificates a short time later.

I doubt that this will be the case next time as Cheshire Firearms Dept have made it very clear on their website what the required procedure is and who carries the costs

 

[DuncanR]

There must be a way to initiate a vote of no confidence AND a winding up order because of inaction.

This will probably require a that a majority of the membership works together make something like this happen. I think we know that will not happen and they probably know it too.

I am at a total loss for ideas.

What I am also struggling to understand is that it appears to me that it is a small group of shooters on this site how are really concerned about the situation. Or have I misread the situation? (Appears that I have joined this group quite unintentionally! Just could not keep quiet anymore!!)

 

[Benelli m2]

This will probably require a that a majority of the membership works together make something like this happen. I think we know that will not happen and they probably know it too.

I am at a total loss for ideas.

What I am also struggling to understand is that it appears to me that it is a small group of shooters on this site how are really concerned about the situation. Or have I misread the situation? (Appears that I have joined this group quite unintentionally! Just could not keep quiet anymore!!)

We do NOT have an organisation that will stand up for shooting end of I'm afraid we are ****ed

 

[DuncanR]

We do NOT have an organisation that will stand up for shooting end of I'm afraid we are ****ed

I am starting to think in the same way! I just cannot sit back and let it happen without at least trying to do something! I know stupid but cannot help it!

 

[Benelli m2]

I got 3 years to go until mine is due if my local practice don't coperate I'm lucky as I work for someone whose wife is a doctor
Or my mates neighbor is a doctor
So if anyone is concerned if Thier gp won't coperate any doctor can do the form they just need your national insurance number to get into your medical records

 

[Greenmist]

I got 3 years to go until mine is due if my local practice don't coperate I'm lucky as I work for someone whose wife is a doctor
Or my mates neighbor is a doctor
So if anyone is concerned if Thier gp won't coperate any doctor can do the form they just need your national insurance number to get into your medical records

Don't you have to be registered with the practice?

 

[Greenmist]

There must be a way to initiate a vote of no confidence AND a winding up order because of inaction.

If you're on about BASC, I remember a similar motion was brought against Jonathan Swifts leadership

 

[enfieldspares]

I brought one against John Farr after his support for Thatcher's 1988 Firearms Act. To be debated at that year's AGM. He resigned from BASC shortly afterwards. So these things can work, yes.

 

[Benelli m2]

Don't you have to be registered with the practice?

No

 

[AndrewS]

Hi Conor,

Thank you for taking the time to gather our input on this.

My own view on the medical component of the licensing system (and I recognise that this ship might have sailed) is that there is minimal, if any, benefit to be gained from asking doctors to 'certify' their patients (whom they probably rarely see) as 'sane enough to hold a firearms certificate'.

Better, would be to restrict their involvement to placing the enduring marker on every FAC-holder's medical record and requiring them, by exception, to contact the police if any condition arises that gives them cause for concern. No issue, no contact, no problem.

No charge should be levied for attaching the marker, and any financial settlement should be between the police and the NHS.

Again, I am grateful for the opportunity to give my input.

Kind regards,

Carl

I agree with Carl 100%. It would only take a minute or two to put a marker on a patient's record (probably wouldn't even have to be done by the GP, a secretary could do it). Then if a patient presents with something that might impact their suitability to use firearms (or to drive a car for that matter), then the GP should tell the relevant authority. I suspect doing this would fall within the remit of their contract with the NHS.

Andrew

 

[Greenmist]

I brought one against John Farr after his support for Thatcher's 1988 Firearms Act. To be debated at that year's AGM. He resigned from BASC shortly afterwards. So these things can work, yes.

Is it a difficult process?

 

[Benelli m2]

I agree with Carl 100%. It would only take a minute or two to put a marker on a patient's record (probably wouldn't even have to be done by the GP, a secretary could do it). Then if a patient presents with something that might impact their suitability to use firearms (or to drive a car for that matter), then the GP should tell the relevant authority. I suspect doing this would fall within the remit of their contract with the NHS.

Andrew

This is already in place or it has been with TVP
All forces are not satisfied with this procedure as it's not reducing the number of certificate's so they have dreamed up this new crap
IT IS ALL ABOUT REDUCING CERTIFICATES

 

[Greenmist]

I agree with Carl 100%. It would only take a minute or two to put a marker on a patient's record (probably wouldn't even have to be done by the GP, a secretary could do it). Then if a patient presents with something that might impact their suitability to use firearms (or to drive a car for that matter), then the GP should tell the relevant authority. I suspect doing this would fall within the remit of their contract with the NHS.

Andrew

I was told by a GP that was always the case, if a GP thought a patient was a danger to themselves or others the police would be informed

 

[AndrewS]

I was told by a GP that was always the case, if a GP thought a patient was a danger to themselves or others the police would be informed

That is my GP's view as well. I asked her on one of my infrequent visits - there is a marker on my records and any relevant medical conditions arising would be reported as necessary. Fortunately (for me) she has no problem with responsible people possessing firearms and is much more concerned with some of her patients that drive a car...

 

[enfieldspares]

Is it a difficult process?

From memory, no. You just contact BASC, as a member, and ask that a motion be put down proposed by you and seconded by a friend to be debated at the AGM. Or at least that's what I did.

 

[DuncanR]

Interesting information.

The problems that we face at present are firstly and mainly time. We don’t have much! There is this consultation on the go. This needs to be dealt with by BASC and ourselves in a logical and robust manner. Neither BASC or shooters in general can be seen to just roll over and accept whatever regulations and pointless requirements are forced upon us. Somehow we need to get BASC to get our point across and defend or fight for a fair and reasonable licensing system. I think it is right that we all take time to send our input as requested. The more the better.

This however is not enough. We need to be kept up to date with how the consultation is going and what is actually being submitted. We also need to know how BASC plan on moving ahead. Are they going to deal with this in a softly softly way or are they actually going to be robust and dare I say forceful in their arguments?

I think it would be unfair to pick on any individuals at the moment, David and Connor in particular, as they are trying to do something. Bit daunting facing us on this forum on a regular basis.

Who are the people behind and next to David and Connor? What are they doing? What is the new Chairperson doing? Is it not these people that need to be challenged? (Sorry I do not know the structure of the organisation, yet. Will try to figure it out)

From what I have seen we seem to jump from one crisis to another and each time shooters are losing ground. This needs to stop and BASC needs to get onto the front foot and deal with the core issues at the same time as fighting the individual issues. After all that is what we do in the business world!

If the right resources do not exist within the organisation then get rid of them and employ the right people before it is too late!

 

[Mick Miller]

I think they're unlikely to help challenge any of these proposed changes as they are broadly supportive of them.