BASC response to Firearms Licensing Guidance Consultation

[Conor O'Gorman]

Why the hell not if you are proposing it !!!!!

When are we in the long term !!!!
Presumably the QC wrote it down as all QC's would, so - PUBLISH IT, or was it, as I suspect, a 'back of fag packet view' verbally to Mr Glenser?
You will note you have not answered a member's query fully (above).
I had hopes for BASC and would have rejoined if this medical mess had been sorted. I would also have encouraged others to do so. I am now more of the opinion of Terrier1 above.

Deal with the present problem with all available means NOW.

Yes that is shouting.

Are you seeing membership numbers fall ?
YES OR NO

Why the hell not if you are proposing it !!!!!

I am not proposing anything. Re-read my rhetorical question, please ie. the one that I asked you several times.

You will note you have not answered a member's query fully.

I did. See above.

Deal with the present problem with all available means NOW.

We are. We are responding to the consultation and have been encouraging people to respond. Also, the latest police force to impose mandatory GP screening is Lancashire which comes into force on 1 Sept. We are challenging that decision.

Are you seeing membership numbers fall ?

No. Membership continues to grow.

 

[Orion]

Also, the latest police force to impose mandatory GP screening is Lancashire which comes into force on 1 Sept. We are challenging that decision.

How are you challenging it - another ‘we don’t welcome/are disappointed with what you are doing letter?

Or something with a bit more legal bite?

 

[User00025]

Why the hell not if you are proposing it !!!!!

I am not proposing anything. Re-read my rhetorical question, please ie. the one that I asked you several times.

You will note you have not answered a member's query fully.

I did. See above.

Deal with the present problem with all available means NOW.

We are. We are responding to the consultation and have been encouraging people to respond. Also, the latest police force to impose mandatory GP screening is Lancashire which comes into force on 1 Sept. We are challenging that decision.

Are you seeing membership numbers fall ?

No. Membership continues to grow.

Answer me this then!! When Linc's Police first mooted the "No medical report, No FAC" and G4 were running (and still are I believe) the Licensing Dept, why did BASC not immediately ask for total reports on the staff administrating this. We are equally entitled to know that side of it, as they hold the names of every firearms owner in the County. It is not beyond the realms of possibility that a civilian may take a bribe to divulge details. This has worried me ever since it started and I am sure any good Barrister should have been all over that fact like a rash. BASC just aint got the Balls for a fight.
Sorry but I left BASC many years ago after knowing a few of the staff and attitudes to members and nothing since seems to have changed.

 

[terrier1]

Why?

Why. Have you read the post on this post BASC have no credibility at all. If you and BASC want to be taken serious I would suggest to sort this medical issue out and maybe you will gain some credibility.

 

[Everlong]

Why the hell not if you are proposing it !!!!!

I am not proposing anything. Re-read my rhetorical question, please ie. the one that I asked you several times.

You will note you have not answered a member's query fully.

I did. See above.

Deal with the present problem with all available means NOW.

We are. We are responding to the consultation and have been encouraging people to respond. Also, the latest police force to impose mandatory GP screening is Lancashire which comes into force on 1 Sept. We are challenging that decision.

Are you seeing membership numbers fall ?

No. Membership continues to grow.

And yet again for the millionth time a BASC representative skips over the "PUBLISH IT" part. I too am a longstanding BASC Member and I'm seriously considering taking my money and giving it to another body - I would dearly like to see this QC's advice published for me to read and understand. Your continued avoidance just adds fuel to the fire that says it doesn't exist. If it exists PUBLISH IT TODAY.

 

[Conor O'Gorman]

How are you challenging it - another ‘we don’t welcome/are disappointed with what you are doing letter?

Or something with a bit more legal bite?

We are challenging it by writing to the Police and Crime Commissioner, Chief Constable, and local MPs to raise our concerns about the change in policy.

 

[Conor O'Gorman]

Estimate of what it would cost to set up a new licensing agency - A great deal, take DVLA as an example and scale down
Who would fund it - You may have noticed most PCC's, CC's and politicians don't like the idea of private firearm ownership and are always looking to increase fees, I'd guess the recommendation of a publicly funded firearms licensing agency would be career suicide, opening the door for a private firm (G4S etc) to fleece gun owners
Would I like a complete new draft of sensible and fair NEW laws that are fit for purpose and replace old and existing laws. and not amendments - Yes I would
The QC's advice was that political action was better in the short term? - That doesn't answer my question, and to be honest, its a bit like the Ali incident where we were told everything was fine and dandy

I am sorry you feel that I didn't answer your question. I thought I did answer your question by explaining that in April 2018, BASC consulted Alan Maclean QC when Lincolnshire Police declared a new medical checks policy and that the QC’s advice was that political action was the better route in the short term.

 

[Conor O'Gorman]

And yet again for the millionth time a BASC representative skips over the "PUBLISH IT" part. I too am a longstanding BASC Member and I'm seriously considering taking my money and giving it to another body - I would dearly like to see this QC's advice published for me to read and understand. Your continued avoidance just adds fuel to the fire that says it doesn't exist. If it exists PUBLISH IT TODAY.

In April 2018, BASC consulted Alan Maclean QC when Lincolnshire Police declared a new medical checks policy. The QC’s advice was that political action was the better route in the short term.

 

[Brno2e]

We are challenging it by writing to the Police and Crime Commissioner, Chief Constable, and local MPs to raise our concerns about the change in policy.

So Orion is right then.

 

[Benelli m2]

So what is getting up peoples backs then
The thought of having to pay your doctor or the thought of losing your guns if the practice refuses to do the forms?

 

[finnbear270]

I gave up full time B.A.S.C. bashing donkeys ago, they are just not going to listen or move on any of this sh!t, be interesting to know who that QC sits & talks with when not under the wig & gown. OH!, & as for attending AGM's ... I came away empty handed .. so will anyone else.

 

[kes]

I'm afraid that what I see is lamentable.
Since membership is "still growing" then good luck to them - we will have to do anything worthwhile ourselves, since BASC will not use its membership to swamp the consultation with responses - just asking "please respond" or asking pointless rhetorical questions, wont cut it, still, at least its distracting.

QC's always commit their thoughts to paper, if being paid a fee, I have had a few dealings over various issues. What is clear is that the QC gave no written reasons if this is all that BASC is going to publish - just an 'off the cuff' view as I have said.
If I am right then, is this the defence we all expect ... I rather think not but since its a rhetorical question I don't expect any answers.
Lamentable is a bit too lenient a word for this shambles. I would bet some BASC officers quietly think so too !

Still Connor it makes a change from years of negotiating wildfowling leases, I bet.

 

[Everlong]

In April 2018, BASC consulted Alan Maclean QC when Lincolnshire Police declared a new medical checks policy. The QC’s advice was that political action was the better route in the short term.

Let's see it then....! What's so difficult about this. PUBLISH THE WRITTEN RESPONSE FROM THE QC

 

[Conor O'Gorman]

Let's see it then....! What's so difficult about this. PUBLISH THE WRITTEN RESPONSE FROM THE QC

The QC’s advice was that political action was the better route in the short term.

 

[Greenmist]

I am sorry you feel that I didn't answer your question. I thought I did answer your question by explaining that in April 2018, BASC consulted Alan Maclean QC when Lincolnshire Police declared a new medical checks policy and that the QC’s advice was that political action was the better route in the short term.

I'm sorry Conor, but this now seems to be the norm with BASC, I as a member feel I being treated with contempt, unless the QC advice has a D notice attached can I ask why you repeatedly avoid publishing THE ACTUAL WRITTEN DOWN ADVICE, or are the members once again being kept in the dark?
Or I'll ask a different question, who at BASC refuses to publish it?

 

[finnbear270]

Let's see it then....! What's so difficult about this. PUBLISH THE WRITTEN RESPONSE FROM THE QC

ECHO ECHO ECHO ECHO ECHO ECHO .................. That by the way is a specimen of Tumble weed, you know that stuff that blows about in empty quarters.!

 

[Conor O'Gorman]

I'm sorry Conor, but this now seems to be the norm with BASC, I as a member feel I being treated with contempt, unless the QC advice has a D notice attached can I ask why you repeatedly avoid publishing THE ACTUAL WRITTEN DOWN ADVICE, or are the members once again being kept in the dark?
Or I'll ask a different question, who at BASC refuses to publish it?

Suggest you email me at conor.ogorman@basc.org.uk with your request and your BASC membership number and we can take it from there?

 

[finnbear270]

Suggest you email me at conor.ogorman@basc.org.uk with your request and your BASC membership number and we can take it from there?

It's a fecki'n D notice alright !

 

[User00025]

I believe one force already has an outside agency being used G4?

I know we are all very frustrated by the way we are, I would suggest being persecuted and bullied by the police especially with regards to the medical screening, but the fundamental problem is the 1968 act and the part where the chief office has unbounded discretion to satisfy themselves that we are fit and proper individuals to be allowed to own firearms.

It is easy to criticise BASC and yes they have made errors in the past and are not as dynamic as we would like in their media communications or always look to react after the horse has bolted, but fighting among ourselves is I believe not the answer. In reality lobbying MP is probably the only way to get change.
We hear very little if anything from some the other organisations e.g CPSA and when we did it was their legal expert suggesting if your GP does not engage in process change GPs and when did one of their staff ever join a forum to openly discuss with the forum members?

We want the police/laws to change but is it not time that all the various shooting organisations put aside their own agendas and actually seriously considered Merging in to one super organisation representing all of shooting and with 732,233 firearm owners then add to that the air gun owners we could have an organisation with a million plus members now we have a unified voice.

But why would they all join, simple fund it differently give every firearm owner and anybody who buys an air gun owner “free” membership yes they can then buy insurance appropriate for their needs.
Then fund the free part by adding say pound or two to the price of a thousand cartridges and 50p to a tin of air gun pellets. Let the manufacture/importers of cartridges and air gun pellets forward the money, money they would get back from the shops and us. Have a trade membership fee as the GTA can also be part of the super organisation.
Yes VAT issues etc need sorting out but surly it is not impossible to do.

Suggest you email me at conor.ogorman@basc.org.uk with your request and your BASC membership number and we can take it from there?

IMHO there is no written advice it's a CON.
It's just the same as when Richard Tice tried to get the orgs together to form one big voice in about 96.
Talking to a few of the BASC boys then finished me with it. Voice of shooting? My great grandson could make a better job of it at 5.

 

[Everlong]

The QC’s advice was that political action was the better route in the short term.

So scan and publish his letter stating that.