BASC will ensure views on Scotland general licences are expressed “loud and clear”

[kes]

Hold up for a minute, let’s put this into perspective:

Wild Justice (3 people) make a challenge to the GLs at a minimal crowd funded cost and achieve total melt down of the system.

Organisations with x+++ £million in the kitty roll over and do sweet F A about the medical evidence fiasco despite being contrary to the HOG (in England and Wales)?

You’re having a laugh.

I absolutely agree and it gives no pleasure to those who have complained over years that our opportunites have been lost and mistakes exploited.
Makes you wonder whether any strategic thinking about threats, opportunities,etc is being carried out by Counsel or even Council, still, always the " BASC says "to fall back on - but there is clearly no-one listening.

 

[gerarddwatts]

Again, what do you expect them to do?

 

[Gameking]

WJ achieved this 'victory' with a reported £36K of crowdfunding. BASC has circa £8 or £9 Million in it's 'Fighting Fund'
what are they saving it for a 'rainy day' ? (it's P*ssing it down lads )


Even if WJ had 10 times the £36 crowdfunding then £ 8m buys you a lot of smarter legal advice.

BASC were 'Marshed' (Chief Constable Marsh) pun intended , over the increase in FAC fees and more involvement of GP's in licensing with the promise of 10 year certificates. Then the deal with the BMA was reneged upon. Then Scotland went away from HOG with 'mandatory' signed GP declarations, no fee no FAC, and now other forces have followed suit in England. Plus the failure to stop airgun licensing in Scotland against all advice to the contrary, similar to the pheasant shooting ban in Wales on Government land against NRW's £40K study .

And before anyone says it, I have been a paid up BASC member for 37 years !!!!!! I I have paid for my right to express an opinion about their failures.

I shall not be renewing

On top of that, look how the staff numbers at BASC has risen , I guess by at least 30 both pre and Post ALI. They did not manage to put up a legal challenge to NRW in time ( for Judical review ) - so what were they doing all that time since it made the decision ( or rather the Labour Environment minister 'recommended' to them )

 

[jimbo1984]

Some of you folk are unbelievably naive.

If the government changes the rules what on earth do you expect of a minority pressure group?

What do you think they can do, but are not doing? If the government wants to ignore them ..they will.

They can, and do, make representations, but thats all they can do.

Some of you expect too much.

If the law is changed, as with airguns up here, there is absolutely nothing that BASC or anybody else, can do about it.

Same with the medical issues up here....the Police make the rules, there is little BASC , or anybody else, can do about it apart from making representation. There is nothing to stop an individual taking them to court, but they'll lose.

Lots on here seem to want to blame BASC or other groups for everything but its not them making the rules.

Too easy to blame the organizations, but in reality, there is little they can be expected to do......they are just too small and insignificant.

Facts of life folks.

Again, what do you expect them to do?

actually try ? Might be an idea .... still as you said there are some VERY naive people out there .....

 

[LuckyEddie]

Same with the medical issues up here....the Police make the rules, there is little BASC , or anybody else, can do about it apart from making representation. There is nothing to stop an individual taking them to court, but they'll lose.

Facts of life folks.

That is where I take exception; the Police are there to enforce the laws - not make them.

The doctors fees issue can still be resolved by the law makers being a bit more savvy in the wording of the firearms legislation.

The question is how far will BASC push the issue to get it resolved - not very going by past performance!

Ed

 

[gerarddwatts]

Wild Justice found a legal 'hole' and exploited it.

I'm sure that were there such hole to be exploited in the Firearms Act, or any other legislation it would be similiarly exploited.
It aint there.

Firearms legislation for example...it's not law that the police must follow the manual...if they don't all we can do is try to get the law changed.

Up here we were promised consultation instead of a reforming chamber...the Scottish govt ignored consultation on hunting, airguns and are about to ignore the Bonomy Review...absolutely nothing BASC can do about it, and no amount of wailing or bleating can change that.

 

[Rake Aboot]

Wild Justice found a legal 'hole' and exploited it.

I'm sure that were there such hole to be exploited in the Firearms Act, or any other legislation it would be similiarly exploited.
It aint there.

Firearms legislation for example...it's not law that the police must follow the manual...if they don't all we can do is try to get the law changed.

Up here we were promised consultation instead of a reforming chamber...the Scottish govt ignored consultation on hunting, airguns and are about to ignore the Bonomy Review...absolutely nothing BASC can do about it, and no amount of wailing or bleating can change that.

Yes it is. Too many people roll over to the Police because they use bullytactics to get what local Chiefs desire, end effect is that they get away with it.

It's not the law that needs changed, it's the police..

and a few laws obviously.

 

[gerarddwatts]

So how do we change the police?

 

[CarlW]

So how do we change the police?

By bringing a legal challenge against one of their decisions.

 

[gerarddwatts]

Not as easy as that....first you have to find where they are breaking a law....they haven't.

 

[gerarddwatts]

And bringing a legal challenge isn't good enough......we have to win a legal challenge.

 

[jimbo1984]

And bringing a legal challenge isn't good enough......we have to win a legal challenge.

Never know if you don’t bring one though will you ? Still why waste that money on challenges when it can go on corporate lunches and range rovers

 

[CarlW]

And bringing a legal challenge isn't good enough......we have to win a legal challenge.

Wild Justice didn't win theirs. Very few legal battles are 'won': they don't get that far. You just need to rough up the other side enough to bring them to the table.

 

[jer]

Wild Justice didn't win theirs. Very few legal battles are 'won': they don't get that far. You just need to rough up the other side enough to bring them to the table.

Spot on Carl, for what was a relatively small amount of money WJ effectively "won" by providing councils opinion that proved they would be likely to win if it went to court, the other side would be stupid to continue with a prospective case when they know it is likely to fail. A good tactic by WJ and BASC should adopt the same tactic to sort other issues out that would be to the benefit of the shooting community. WJ have shown how to be effective, we should follow suit.

 

[enfieldspares]

Never know if you don’t bring one though will you ? Still why waste that money on challenges when it can go on corporate lunches and Range Rovers

Sad to say I think you're right.

 

[gerarddwatts]

And what 'issues' should BASC be seeking counsels opinion on that would change anything?

Just because you want something doesn't make it so.

Still, carry on blaming BASC if it helps you.

 

[jimbo1984]

And what 'issues' should BASC be seeking counsels opinion on that would change anything?

Just because you want something doesn't make it so.

Still, carry on blaming BASC if it helps you.

Medical fees ? I seem to remember them not bothering with legal action to take a political ( cheaper ) approach , how did that work out ? Still keep burying your head in the sand if it helps you

 

[gerarddwatts]

Medical fees ? I seem to remember them not bothering with legal action to take a political ( cheaper ) approach , how did that work out ? Still keep burying your head in the sand if it helps you

And what do you think 'they' could have done?

 

[jimbo1984]

And what do you think 'they' could have done?

Actually challenged it seeing as it’s outside home office guidelines , you know actually tried to stand up for us as opposed to doing nothing ..... still too late now isn’t it ! Just think though if they had challenged it it could’ve been the beginning of the end of police making it up as they go along ...... still as I say we’ll never know now will we !

 

[gerarddwatts]

And what legal mechanism do you think they should employ to challenge it?