Best Low Light Scope article from Optics Trade

[User00040]

The ULTIMATE Low Light Riflescope Buying Guide - Optics Trade Blog

Hunting does not always happen in perfect lighting conditions, that is why we created this ULTIMATE Low-Light Riflescope Buying Guide

www.optics-trade.eu

Very informative article by @Optics Trade EU @OpticsTradeEU

 

[Dari]

It seems that the link you postet is not active any more.
This is how I found the article.

The ULTIMATE Low Light Riflescope Buying Guide in - Optics Trade Blog

Hunting does not always happen in perfect lighting conditions, that is why we created this ULTIMATE Low-Light Riflescope Buying Guide

www.optics-trade.eu

And yes, it is very informative, systematic and as far as I have experience with optics-trade.eu, also honest.

Cheers

 

[Steff]

Don't read it. The technical information transported is simply wrong.

Variable magnification scopes do NOT have more lenses than fixed magnification scopes.
The same goes for higher zoom factors. They do not need more lenses than e.g. a 4-factor zoom.

The really critical item of abberation isn't even mentioned.

 

[Optics Trade EU]

Don't read it. The technical information transported is simply wrong.

Variable magnification scopes do NOT have more lenses than fixed magnification scopes.
The same goes for higher zoom factors. They do not need more lenses than e.g. a 4-factor zoom.

The really critical item of abberation isn't even mentioned.

The technical information transported is the one transported to us by the manufacturers. Zeiss and Swarovski to be exact. It is however true that we took their word and did not open up their scopes to actually check.

Still, to be fair, you can check any drawing or cutaway you will see that zoom rifle scopes need additional lenses in their construction to even enable zoom functionality.

In regards to the number of lenses, we have leaned on the official statement of Zeiss that their Victory V8 scopes have a higher number of lenses in their optical construction than Victory HT. The same claim was given to us by Swarovski about their comparison between Kahles Helia scopes and their Z8i on their dealer training.

This could also mean that in theory zoom factor would not influence the number of needed lenses in the scopes but in reality, all premium super-zoom scopes have more lenses in their construction than 4time zoom scopes. Even though I have to be honest that basically all manufacturers that I visited in the past 10 years have told me the opposite.

It is true that we did not go deep in the field of aberrations since we wanted to make the article a bit simpler and shorter. Comatic, chromatic, and all other aberrations were taken into consideration in the general optical performance. Still, your comment is very helpful since now see that we have to improve in this field as well.

 

[Steff]

The technical information transported is the one transported to us by the manufacturers. Zeiss and Swarovski to be exact. It is however true that we took their word and did not open up their scopes to actually check.

Still, to be fair, you can check any drawing or cutaway you will see that zoom rifle scopes need additional lenses in their construction to even enable zoom functionality.

In regards to the number of lenses, we have leaned on the official statement of Zeiss that their Victory V8 scopes have a higher number of lenses in their optical construction than Victory HT. The same claim was given to us by Swarovski about their comparison between Kahles Helia scopes and their Z8i on their dealer training.

This could also mean that in theory zoom factor would not influence the number of needed lenses in the scopes but in reality, all premium super-zoom scopes have more lenses in their construction than 4time zoom scopes. Even though I have to be honest that basically all manufacturers that I visited in the past 10 years have told me the opposite.

It is true that we did not go deep in the field of aberrations since we wanted to make the article a bit simpler and shorter. Comatic, chromatic, and all other aberrations were taken into consideration in the general optical performance. Still, your comment is very helpful since now see that we have to improve in this field as well.

Thank you for this response.
I haven‘t cut open any scope either. So I can only rely on second hand information, just as yourself. Maybe we can gather some more insight on the lens configurations in the future.

The topic of abberation is something that dealers and consumers should put more focus on. Just as a hint to what this is all about one should take a look at the technical data of 6 and 8 factor zoom scopes. Here you will see that the exit pupils are considerably smaller than they could be using the classic formula Ojective diameter / Magnification.
None of the 4 -zoom factor scopes show this in their data. This is a clear indication that higher than 4-factor zoom scopes have inferior low light capabilities. It‘s probably no coincidence that both Zeiss HT and Schmidt & Bender Polar have a factor of ‘only‘ 4.

 

[Dari]

Optics-trade.eu just released a 30 minutes video on YouTube.

Sorry, forgot the link.

 

[mak]

Thank you for this response.
I haven‘t cut open any scope either. So I can only rely on second hand information, just as yourself. Maybe we can gather some more insight on the lens configurations in the future.
None of the 4 -zoom factor scopes show this in their data. This is a clear indication that higher than 4-factor zoom scopes have inferior low light capabilities. It‘s probably no coincidence that both Zeiss HT and Schmidt & Bender Polar have a factor of ‘only‘ 4.

Sorry, but I don’t think riflescopes with higher than 4x factor have inferior low light capabilities, unless based on exit pupil mathematics. Glass types, coatings etc, play a big part.

 

[User00040]

Sorry, but I don’t think riflescopes with higher than 4x factor have inferior low light capabilities, unless based on exit pupil mathematics. Glass types, coatings etc, play a big part.

Used a Ziess V8 2.5-20x56 and it is not the best in low light, even with a 36mm tube!

 

[mak]

Used a Ziess V8 2.5-20x56 and it is not the best in low light, even with a 36mm tube!

The tube size is irrelevant. That scope IIRC is listed as 92%. Personally I wouldn’t have the mag above 8x in low light.

 

[mealiejimmy]

Variable magnification scopes need at least 2 more lenses than a fixed magnification scope.
It is the linear movement of those two lenses relative to each other and to the focal planes of the scope that provide the variable magnification by altering the focal length of the ocular lens assembly
Those two lenses are inside the erector tube and are small compared to the other lenses in the scope.


Cheers

Bruce

 

[Chiyuan]

Very good read! I'm wondering if anyone has done a test for scopes all setting at 8x or 6x, and compare them with the fixed ones? Which one performs the best at 8x or 6x in the low light condition? Just considering the optic performance, other factors like the weight, size, price, etc, are not considered here.

 

[mak]

Very good read! I'm wondering if anyone has done a test for scopes all setting at 8x or 6x, and compare them with the fixed ones? Which one performs the best at 8x or 6x in the low light condition? Just considering the optic performance, other factors like the weight, size, price, etc, are not considered here.

Yes I have and have the data from a German optics company. A fixed 8x56 for example would not have a higher optics performance ratio than a variable set at 8x on a 56mm variable.

 

[mak]

Variable magnification scopes need at least 2 more lenses than a fixed magnification scope.
It is the linear movement of those two lenses relative to each other and to the focal planes of the scope that provide the variable magnification by altering the focal length of the ocular lens assembly
Those two lenses are inside the erector tube and are small compared to the other lenses in the scope.


Cheers

Bruce

Bruce
I think that is dependant on the optical design and manufacturer of the riflescopes. But an interesting discussion. Fixed magnification is a thing from he past, as many years ago fixed mag riflescopes way outsold variables, how time have changed.

 

[Optics Trade EU]

Variable magnification scopes need at least 2 more lenses than a fixed magnification scope.
It is the linear movement of those two lenses relative to each other and to the focal planes of the scope that provide the variable magnification by altering the focal length of the ocular lens assembly
Those two lenses are inside the erector tube and are small compared to the other lenses in the scope.


Cheers

Bruce

This is the fact I was trying to convey in my first reply in this topic. And to our knowledge based on manufacturers' information, 6time and 8time zoom scopes have yet other additional lenses compared to 4time zoom scopes.

As seen and explained in our video and blog post, we have noticed however that glass quality, coatings, and illumination system quality play a much bigger role than zoom factor.

 

[Optics Trade EU]

Yes I have and have the data from a German optics company. A fixed 8x56 for example would not have a higher optics performance ratio than a variable set at 8x on a 56mm variable.

We tested S&B Klassik 8x56 vs other 56mm scopes and it generally performed in low light conditions on a level of around 30-40% more expensive variable scopes. Still however it was not able to match premium modern variable scopes.

 

[mak]

We tested S&B Klassik 8x56 vs other 56mm scopes and it generally performed in low light conditions on a level of around 30-40% more expensive variable scopes. Still however it was not able to match premium modern variable scopes.

Tithe old Zeiss 8x56 was extensively used by German hunters ( and others) in low light conditions, just as the S& B version did as both of their specifications were designed for low light use.However the arguments that variables do not perform as well is incorrect. Certainly not those in the last 15 years or so. The markets changed. When I started in 1997: fixed mag riflescopes in the UK were the best sellers (6x42 & 8x56), and the most popular variable was the 1.5-6x42, where have these 3 sizes gone????

 

[John Gryphon]

This test is from circa 2004 i believe and is still relevant today. I have posted it previously and I suppose there is no shock in the top score names.


Swedish magazine Vapentidningen no 6/2004 has printed a consumer lab test for riflescopes suitable for hunting at dusk/dawn.
Their conclusion is that the German/Austrian scopes are by far the best, but the leap from the cheaper US scopes are smaller today than it was at the last test 7 years ago.
Aerotech Telub lab did the scientific testing using spektrofotometers, broad spectral lamps and kolliminators.

The scopes were tested for field of sight, eye relief, "tube effect", ergonomy, click adjustment accuracy, impact change with change of magnification, sharpness and contrast, light transmission, reflexes, twilight performance.

A short summary of the results below.

Scope name
B resolution (max 10)
C colour & contrast (max 10)
D anti-reflex (max 5+5)
E light transmission (max 10)
F twilight performance (max 10)
G overall test result (including all test results, not just the ones I've printed. Max possible 78)

Remember, this is a lab test, not some testers subjective opinion.

BSA Big cat 3,5-10x: B3 C3 D5 E6 F3 G44
BURRIS FULLFIELD II 3,5-10X: B10 C7 D6 E9 F7 G58
DOCTER 3-12X: B7 C8 D8 E8 F7 G60
KAHLES CB 3-12: B6 C8 D8 E9 F8 G62
LEUPOLD VXIII 3,5-10X:B7 C7 D8 E8 F6 G60
MEOPTA ARTEMIS 3000 3-12X: B7 C7 D7 E7 F7 G57
MEOPTA ARTEMIS 2000 3-12X: B6 C7 D7 E7 F6 G55
MICRO DOT 2,3-10X: B7 C6 D7 E8 F7 G58
NICKEL GERHARDT 3-12X: B9 C8 D8 E9 F9 G66
NIGHTFORCE NP1 3,5-15X: B9 C6 D9 E8 F7 G60
OXO ONTARIO 3-9X: B3 C3 D4 E6 F2 G39
PECAR 4-10X: B5 C6 D6 E8 F5 G46
SCHMIDT UND BENDER ZENITH 2,5-10X: B7 C8 D9 E9 F9 G65
SCHMIDT UND BENDER 2,5-10X: B9 C8 D8 E9 F9 G66
SHIRSTONE GOLD 4-12X: B5 C5 D5 E7 F5 G47
SWAROVSKI HABICT 3-12X: B9 C9 D8 E9 F10 G68
TASCO TITAN 3-12X: B5 C6 D6 E7 F4 G49
TRIJICON ACCUPOINT 2,5-10X: B8 C6 D8 E9 F8 G64
ZEISS DIAVARI Z T 3-12X: B10 C10 D10 E9 F10 G72
ZEISS VARIPOINT V 3-12X: B9 C10 D10 E9 F9 G70
ZEISS DIAVARI V 3-12X: B10 C10 D10 E9 F10 G73

 

[John Gryphon]

Real Quality of rifle scopes

I am in the process of replacing the contents of my Gun Cabinet and got to the point of selecting rifle scopes. I am a recreational sport stalker, I enjoy my sport but don't need to put meat on the table and I don't have a cull target or plan to meet. I'm not a tactical long range shooter and...

www.thestalkingdirectory.co.uk