best powder and velocity for .223 50gn bullets

[straightpull6547]

Sorry I wasn't trying to take the thread over

What I meant was chasing velocity for theoretical trajectory gain rarely gets what you want, costs you more in powder and brass and is unlikely to get more hits
(actual gains can only be shown on paper and based on experience are never what the manufacturers publish!)

9" drop is better than 12" drop but both are theoretical and you only see the benefit of that theory if you can shoot less than the difference at that range

what I mean is if one load shoots 3" lower than than other at 300 yds none of that matters if you can only consistently get 4" or bigger groups with you your rifle, scope and ammo

the groups will overlap

What you are saying makes no sense, what i mean is that at 300m 9" drop will still be in a sitting fox, 12" may well drop below it, therefore a flatter shooting rifle is better. Group size is .2 moa at 100m, more than adequate

 

[bewsher500]

What you are saying makes no sense,
what i mean is that at 300m 9" drop will still be in a sitting fox,
12" may well drop below it,
therefore a flatter shooting rifle is better.

Group size is .2 moa at 100m, more than adequate

I don't mean to bang on but want you to understand what I mean and see the futility of chasing MV before you get bogged down

0.2MOA is indeed very small
but what is your group size at 300m?
0.2MOA - 1.5"?

If you can shoot 1.5" groups at 300m in weather and darkness then that is some going
I mean world competition level going
300m Competition

if your rifle is in the 2's on both loads (lest call them "fast" and "slow") at 300m you are on a winner. crack on

and yes you will have two 1.5" groups 1.5" apart one above the other. (the 3" difference in drop is taken from the centre of the group)

But..and its a big "but"
group size is not linear with range..even without wind

If you shoot two 3" groups and the drop difference the two is 3" then they are more than likely two touching groups. The bottom edge of the "fast" load is the same as the top edge of the "slow" load

If your groups get any bigger than that (and at 300m a 1MOA group which is still good is bigger than 3") then the groups overlap

if your groups overlap there is no proven benefit to the "flatter group".
You have as much chance of your lowest "fast" shot going lower than 12"...the same as the upper edge of the accuracy of the "slow" shot.

this:
Point of aim is the edge with the red spot, same point of aim
top red line is the 9" drop line going through the centre of the groups
bottom red line is the 12" drop line going through the centre of the groups

anything in the Blue circle is demonstrating that MV has no advantage over accuracy.
You need to add the group size to the drop to give a true indication of whether you will see any real gain




hope that makes sense
but its your rifle, only you can tell what it can do

be interested as I have never managed to get manufacturer MV's from any of their loads, they are always a couple of hundred fps off.

 

[james22250]

Ed, you can do your best to help people but sometimes its just best to sit back and let them crack on themselves!

 

[straightpull6547]

Thanks for that bewsh. I can now see your polnt, if the rifle is less accurate and the groups get larger, there is a chance that some of them will drift up into the kill zone.

the rifle shoots 30mm 5 shot groups at 300m.

thanks for taking your time to explain. I've achieved 3345fps with some h4895 last night, 27.5gn, so thats a bit closer to my goal.

 

[straightpull6547]

Ed, you can do your best to help people but sometimes its just best to sit back and let them crack on themselves!

he didnt help one bit, he just went off on his own crusade rather than helping to answer my question. Thanks to all that read, understood and answered my original post.

 

[ziggy]

I used to use H4895 in a standard T3 but struggled to get much more than 3200fps, however now using a 27.5" barrel and N133 I get 3716fps its awesome. I will now wait to be called a fibber

 

[straightpull6547]

I used to use H4895 in a standard T3 but struggled to get much more than 3200fps, however now using a 27.5" barrel and N133 I get 3716fps its awesome. I will now wait to be called a fibber

Thanks, was that a 20" T3?

why dont you try slowing it down and going for better accuracy? Silly me, i bet your accuracy is just fine!

 

[ziggy]

Erm.... Pass on barrel length but must've been something like that. It just so happens that was my most accurate load. 3670ish with new brass and resized it was giving 3716( was a warm day in all honesty).

 

[bewsher500]

Thanks for that bewsh. I can now see your polnt, if the rifle is less accurate and the groups get larger, there is a chance that some of them will drift up into the kill zone.

the rifle shoots 30mm 5 shot groups at 300m.

thanks for taking your time to explain. I've achieved 3345fps with some h4895 last night, 27.5gn, so thats a bit closer to my goal.

That's quite a group
do the faster loads also shoot like that?

Its not a crusade, just an awareness exercise.
Most people can't shoot anything like 30mm at 300m (of even yards!)
chasing something that is of no benefit is...well...of no benefit

I chased 3000fps in 208gr Amax in 300WM because all the US forums were saying they could achieve this with similar loads of H1000 to what I was using
Not only was it impossible in my rifle the accuracy suffered as a result
I am 300fps off the target but it shoots in the 0.2's and I have been shooting out to 700 and 900 yds

the drop is inconsequential IF you know the real drop details
Wind is the killer

any pics of the rifle?

 

[riflerob]

Thanks for that bewsh. I can now see your polnt, if the rifle is less accurate and the groups get larger, there is a chance that some of them will drift up into the kill zone.

the rifle shoots 30mm 5 shot groups at 300m.

thanks for taking your time to explain. I've achieved 3345fps with some h4895 last night, 27.5gn, so thats a bit closer to my goal.

If you can shoot to that high a standard, then I expect you're on a national team.

Especially considering most of them would be delighted with a group that small at such a distance, even using a 6mmBR.

 

[the prowler]

For foxing with night vision you cant beat the 204ruger. Nice and flat and not to much powder.

 

[straightpull6547]

If you can shoot to that high a standard, then I expect you're on a national team.

Especially considering most of them would be delighted with a group that small at such a distance, even using a 6mmBR.

No not on a national team, just use top quality equipment and know how to build accurate ammunition (its not difficult, just requires attention to deatail and consistency), was just wondering what powders were popular for .223 50gn bullets to give good velocity. I dont have extensive experience with this calibre. Thanks for your help. I dabbled with 6br for a while but found it mediocre, ppc and 47l were much more enjoyable rounds to shoot.

 

[Cooter]

I got the best results for 50Grn Hornady using N130.
I also tried N133, Benchmark and H322 but they never grouped as well.
I never ran it over the chrony, but the available load data I have (and Quickload) suggest it can go up to 3400 at the top end.

 

[Shootowtthatmoves]

For foxing with night vision you cant beat the 204ruger. Nice and flat and not to much powder.

Got to agree, 25.5 Benchmark pushing a Sierra BlitzKing 40grn, Charlies worst nightmare, never had one complain about the velocity.

 

[straightpull6547]

Thanks, ive got a tub of benchmark to try. Nosler data looks good for velocity with this powder. I'll give you all an update when ive had time to do some load development.

thanks again

 

[Colonel]

I get about the 3400ft mv with Winchester cases CCI mag primers and 27gn H335 and very accurate.

 

[Effnjeff]

I got the best results for 50Grn Hornady using N130.
I also tried N133, Benchmark and H322 but they never grouped as well.
I never ran it over the chrony, but the available load data I have (and Quickload) suggest it can go up to 3400 at the top end.

Agreed, N130 is probably the best bet of those mentioned so far as its burn rate is well matched to the bullet weight in 223.