What?!
What did I change other than spelling?
and a Troll?
I'm lost!
I'll leave this thread well alone. Apologies for venturing an opinion!
Blaser R93 or Not ??
- Thread starter Grant.N
- Start date
What?!
What did I change other than spelling?
and a Troll?
I'm lost!
I'll leave this thread well alone. Apologies for venturing an opinion!
Hales Smut
Well-Known Member
I do not own a Blaser R93, but a friend has one. They biggest advantage is being short and light. Certainly in a moderator country like the UK, lenght is important. When I sometimes see photo's of a heavy sako + a big scope + a huge moderator, I always think : not for me. A Sauer will be just as good or even better ( no discussion about this ) but it's longer.
Just imagine a 308 R93 with a 20" barrel and a light CMM moderator. Custom rifle or a Sauer or a R93 or ... We had this discussion already in the " best gun topic a few weeks ago " .
There is no man alive who can work as accuarte as a quality machine. Just go to a custom rifle maker and ask him to build you a 1500 pound rifle with a weight of no more than 2.8kg, a 20-220inch sporter barrel, a quality trigger. It should shoot 3 rounds of factory ammo in 3/4 of an inch.
If it doesn't work you get it for free. Just see who accepts the deal.
Just imagine a 308 R93 with a 20" barrel and a light CMM moderator. Custom rifle or a Sauer or a R93 or ... We had this discussion already in the " best gun topic a few weeks ago " .
There is no man alive who can work as accuarte as a quality machine. Just go to a custom rifle maker and ask him to build you a 1500 pound rifle with a weight of no more than 2.8kg, a 20-220inch sporter barrel, a quality trigger. It should shoot 3 rounds of factory ammo in 3/4 of an inch.
If it doesn't work you get it for free. Just see who accepts the deal.
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Offroad Gary
Well-Known Member
He can't be a troll, what sort of troll would admit to buying 3 blasers to find out their crap?!?! Every village has one.
I was going to ignore this thread after getting the "keyboard-hero" stuff from Brough; can't be wasting my life dealing with internet-angry people. But I have to say that last post actually made me laugh out loud!
I wonder why a few people on this forum hate the Blaser so much?
Is it a form of p*nis envy or what?
Hundreds of rounds through my R93 (.243 & .308) and no misfires, can't say the same for my Ruger.
Closed the action within 75 yds of a herd of Fallow with no drama, can't see what the problem with closing the thing is, no problem for me to do it quietly, and you know what? No misfire!
The internal magazine is a bit of a pain, especially for performing safe unloads when getting in and out of vehicles.
However, my rifle has gone with me to driven boar trips, up to Scotland etc, it has been in and out of the case, unbuilt, rebuilt, including scope rail on & off, barrels switched and it never moved zero more than a millimetre when I took it to the range to check.
It was the best buy I made for hunting, it's not perfect and I do sometimes get a hankering for something with wood and a bit of fancy metal work, then I pick up my R93 (usually in .308 these days) and I'm backing to ask myself, why?
Is it a form of p*nis envy or what?
Hundreds of rounds through my R93 (.243 & .308) and no misfires, can't say the same for my Ruger.
Closed the action within 75 yds of a herd of Fallow with no drama, can't see what the problem with closing the thing is, no problem for me to do it quietly, and you know what? No misfire!
The internal magazine is a bit of a pain, especially for performing safe unloads when getting in and out of vehicles.
However, my rifle has gone with me to driven boar trips, up to Scotland etc, it has been in and out of the case, unbuilt, rebuilt, including scope rail on & off, barrels switched and it never moved zero more than a millimetre when I took it to the range to check.
It was the best buy I made for hunting, it's not perfect and I do sometimes get a hankering for something with wood and a bit of fancy metal work, then I pick up my R93 (usually in .308 these days) and I'm backing to ask myself, why?
caorach
Well-Known Member
The thing is geoshot that a Blaser is probably less expensive than many other rifles in that you can probably sell it 2nd hand for close to what you paid for it so the total cost over its life is probably not so great so I can see no reason for envy of any kind. It is also the case that many people, especially with American made rifles, seem to spend a lot of money on new triggers, new barrels, new stocks and so on. While this is great if it is a hobby for you it is also expensive and I wonder how many of these people actually spend more than they could have bought a Blaser for?
However, I must say that I have experience of the "Blaser misfire" problem and I am sure it was not a failure to close the bolt which seems to be a favourite excuse of those who have drunk from the Blaser kool-aid fountain. I was stalking in Scotland and the stalker was also a Blaser owner. Before going on the hill I wanted a shot at the target and using brand new factory ammo I got the click but no bang. After some investigation and the usual procedure I ejected the round, which I'm pretty sure had no mark on the primer, (it is some years back) and chambered another one. We checked that the bolt was closed etc. and I fairly slamed it shut just in case and it also failed to fire. The stalker said he'd seen this before and that the procedure to resolve it was to remove the bolt and replace it. I couldn't understand how this could impact on a failure to fire and we could see nothing wrong with the bolt as it was - it was correctly fitted and operated just fine in as far as the human eye and hand could judge.
I removed the bolt and reinserted it and the rifle then fired the two rounds that had previously failed to fire.
Now, i need to highlight that this is one instance of this in probably 2000 rounds through this rifle and it is several years since it took place but I am sure that it was a failure to fire on the part of the rifle and not pilot error. It was also interesting that the person I was with had also seen the problem ( I don't know if it was with his own rifle or another) and I would class him as a clever man and a reliable witness. With that I am sure that Blasers do on very rare occasions suffer from a failure to fire but I suspect that investigations would reveal that they don't do it any more often than any other rifle. To have constant failures to fire across multiple rifles would lead me to investigate the common factor with all three rifles, there have been probably tens of thousands of rounds fired by Blaser owners on this site and I'm the only person I know of to document a failure to fire that doesn't involve this "common factor."
I also heard the stuff about needing to full length resize on the internet - I've got cases here on about their 10th neck sizing with a load giving me 3000fps from a 150 grain 308W and they still chamber and shoot just fine. I did have problems with neck sizing back when I started reloading but I was doing things wrong and it was nothing to do with the rifle so I've certainly never seen any evidence that this one is anything to do with the rifle but in my case it certainly was pilot error.
However, I must say that I have experience of the "Blaser misfire" problem and I am sure it was not a failure to close the bolt which seems to be a favourite excuse of those who have drunk from the Blaser kool-aid fountain. I was stalking in Scotland and the stalker was also a Blaser owner. Before going on the hill I wanted a shot at the target and using brand new factory ammo I got the click but no bang. After some investigation and the usual procedure I ejected the round, which I'm pretty sure had no mark on the primer, (it is some years back) and chambered another one. We checked that the bolt was closed etc. and I fairly slamed it shut just in case and it also failed to fire. The stalker said he'd seen this before and that the procedure to resolve it was to remove the bolt and replace it. I couldn't understand how this could impact on a failure to fire and we could see nothing wrong with the bolt as it was - it was correctly fitted and operated just fine in as far as the human eye and hand could judge.
I removed the bolt and reinserted it and the rifle then fired the two rounds that had previously failed to fire.
Now, i need to highlight that this is one instance of this in probably 2000 rounds through this rifle and it is several years since it took place but I am sure that it was a failure to fire on the part of the rifle and not pilot error. It was also interesting that the person I was with had also seen the problem ( I don't know if it was with his own rifle or another) and I would class him as a clever man and a reliable witness. With that I am sure that Blasers do on very rare occasions suffer from a failure to fire but I suspect that investigations would reveal that they don't do it any more often than any other rifle. To have constant failures to fire across multiple rifles would lead me to investigate the common factor with all three rifles, there have been probably tens of thousands of rounds fired by Blaser owners on this site and I'm the only person I know of to document a failure to fire that doesn't involve this "common factor."
I also heard the stuff about needing to full length resize on the internet - I've got cases here on about their 10th neck sizing with a load giving me 3000fps from a 150 grain 308W and they still chamber and shoot just fine. I did have problems with neck sizing back when I started reloading but I was doing things wrong and it was nothing to do with the rifle so I've certainly never seen any evidence that this one is anything to do with the rifle but in my case it certainly was pilot error.
Hi Caorach,
Didn't mean to cause offence mate, j for joke eh?
Never had a misfire with my R93. Two barrels, one a .243 the other a .308, hundreds of rounds through both. All sorts of ammo, mostly factory but different heads for different game.
No matter what I feed it with, no misfires.
Friends have Blasers too, met dozens more owners on driven boar hunts, at the range - wherever.
No matter what, the only place where the "blaser misfire" is heard of is right here on this forum.
I honestly haven't heard of it anywhere else!
I suspect it's like the story of that poor fella who blew half his face off, it's rare (thankfully) but once on the net it's away on a life of it's own.
Was yours a pre-2002 rifle?
We can all only speak from our own experience, and mine is, Blasers don't misfire, maybe you got a lemon or a "friday gun"?
Didn't mean to cause offence mate, j for joke eh?
Never had a misfire with my R93. Two barrels, one a .243 the other a .308, hundreds of rounds through both. All sorts of ammo, mostly factory but different heads for different game.
No matter what I feed it with, no misfires.
Friends have Blasers too, met dozens more owners on driven boar hunts, at the range - wherever.
No matter what, the only place where the "blaser misfire" is heard of is right here on this forum.
I honestly haven't heard of it anywhere else!
I suspect it's like the story of that poor fella who blew half his face off, it's rare (thankfully) but once on the net it's away on a life of it's own.
Was yours a pre-2002 rifle?
We can all only speak from our own experience, and mine is, Blasers don't misfire, maybe you got a lemon or a "friday gun"?
caorach
Well-Known Member
Sorry if I came over as offended geoshot, I wasn't in the slightest and thought I was agreeing with your point, or at least the general tone of it. I have seen the misfire and I'm certain it wasn't pilot error, I have a reliable witness, but it was only once and from what I can see that is the only confirmed evidence I've seen on this site though I have seen the subject discussed elsewhere. So, out of probably tens of thousands of Blaser rounds fired by people on SD it has happened once. I think that it pretty good performance and reliability and my single event just serves to highlight how rare it is. I am pretty certain if we were to take any other model of rifle we would find a lot more examples of a misfire - the Blaser is a slightly strange but well engineered rifle and single reports of misfires, getting it stuck down the toilet, blow ups or not liking the colour are nothing close to a pattern of problems with the rifle. Like you say the net can make single problems, like mine, grow legs and all of a sudden it appears like it is a common thing and people are reporting that everyone on SD has had misfires with their rifle. In truth one person has had one misfire with one rifle which has never repeated the problem and in view of the stats that makes the Blaser so reliable as in statistical terms we can say it never fails. As I hinted the person who posted saying he has had three rifles all of which misfired a considerable proportion of the time doesn't have faulty rifles - the problem there lies elsewhere.
If I were thinking of buying a rifle I'd feel happier that someone confessed to having seen a problem which is occasionially mentioned on the internet and that they detailed what happened and the rarity of the event than if I couldn't establish just how rare the event was. If I'm the only person anyone can find who has seen the problem - and I'm not worried about it - then there is no cause for concern for someone buying a new rifle.
My rifle is probably 2005/6 or so and so is well after the trigger pin problem - in saying that the trigger pin thing wasn't ever a problem it was just a case of the factory being delivered some pins which didn't meet the required engineering spec. There was never any hint that there had been a failure but Blaser replaced the pins just to be sure.
Two things:
One. A non-sequitur- you yourself indicated that your blaser-using colleague recognised the double misfire you described as well as the remedy. Even if choosing to disregard all other reports, that is, QED, not a unique event.
Probably worth reminding yourself how you described the issue at Blaserpro.com a while back (thought I recognised the login name
).
Two- I described the first R93's fault culminating in the rifle being returned to the factory. The factory identified the misfire fault as arising from the rifle's chamber having been cut shorter than spec (with the resulting headspacing issues preventing the collet from fully functioning). A factory identified manufacturing error.
The jagdmatch -never looked into it. Just swapped it for a 202.
The 338. Clearly (I thought) described as brass related. RUAG = No Bang; Lapua = Bang. Headspacing again? I would suspect so. Didn't look into it (ceased caring).
Parting observation:
I think it's not the perceived 'slagging' of Blasers that's odd. It's the way Blaser users fall over themselves to preach how faultless they are.
This thread was started by a chap asking about pros and cons;
since then anyone mentioning a 'con' based on direct personal experience has been leapt-on by 'internet angries' as though it's somehow a personal insult.
That's what's odd......and it doesn't make for a very balanced (let alone polite!) discussion .
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Brough
Well-Known Member
Chitterne , I had a genuine interested in your post regarding your findings of the misfires , Something I had never heard before,, and your advice too full length resize was duly noted It was you that then went on a crusade rubbishing everything blaser , Not once did I comment on my faultless blaser saying its the best thing ever ,it does indeed have short comings of which I have spoken . You then accused me of getting " Chippy " with you whatever that means , you then edited that post and then denied you had done .
So shall we now start over ,Welcome to the site Chitterne. Hope you enjoy your stay .
So shall we now start over ,Welcome to the site Chitterne. Hope you enjoy your stay .
Thar
Well-Known Member
Chitterne I am with you on this, now I know that I will get a lot of flack from the Blaser Lovers but it is best they know that not everybody thinks they are the dog balls.
I think they or over complicated, over priced for the rifle, massively over priced for the extras.
While I can see that the shorter length as a advantage, the faster follow up shot I see as little advantage in the UK stalking. I have no problem working a normal bolt action to shoot a roe doe and two kids, no problems when getting in a mob of hinds either.
The disadvantages I see are if you are using the rifle in rough country the chance of something gumming up the action. I dragged two hinds out of the forest Tuesday this week dragging them under Sika spruce and floating them over a river, took me all morning I was covered in pine needles and trigs after going under the trees, I am not convinced that if any of that got into a Blaser action it would still work without a strip down.
Not sure how easy it is to load the rifle quickly with a scope right over the magazine, I guess the R8 sorts this but at more expense.
Lastly if something does go wrong on a conventional bolt action rifle it normally blows just in front of the chamber so at worse you loss a finger or two, but when a Blaser goes tits up you loose half your head.
So I like life too much to risk using a Blaser.
Photos posted just to show how bad it can be.
Now waiting for outrage and being labelled a troll form Blaser uses for daring to dis’ there beloved Blasers. In trench tin hat on.
PS yes I could afford one if I wanted .
ATB
Tahr
I think they or over complicated, over priced for the rifle, massively over priced for the extras.
While I can see that the shorter length as a advantage, the faster follow up shot I see as little advantage in the UK stalking. I have no problem working a normal bolt action to shoot a roe doe and two kids, no problems when getting in a mob of hinds either.
The disadvantages I see are if you are using the rifle in rough country the chance of something gumming up the action. I dragged two hinds out of the forest Tuesday this week dragging them under Sika spruce and floating them over a river, took me all morning I was covered in pine needles and trigs after going under the trees, I am not convinced that if any of that got into a Blaser action it would still work without a strip down.
Not sure how easy it is to load the rifle quickly with a scope right over the magazine, I guess the R8 sorts this but at more expense.
Lastly if something does go wrong on a conventional bolt action rifle it normally blows just in front of the chamber so at worse you loss a finger or two, but when a Blaser goes tits up you loose half your head.
So I like life too much to risk using a Blaser.Photos posted just to show how bad it can be.
Now waiting for outrage and being labelled a troll form Blaser uses for daring to dis’ there beloved Blasers. In trench tin hat on.
PS yes I could afford one if I wanted .
ATB
Tahr
Oops, you're quite right, I did do that. Apologies, quite forgot. Decided 'chippy' (as in, have a chip on your shoulder) was unecessarily provocative.
Don't really think I 'rubbished Blaser'; I just described my experience of the rifle based on owning three.
[Which, given my view does -as one of the chaps pointed out - demonstrate a pretty horizontal learning curve
]Happy to start over. Thanks
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That made me giggle.
And yes, you won't find many R93 owners agreeing with your observations no matter how well founded; especially if they happened to currently have an R93 up for sale in the sales section
IMHO the R93 just does not give any value for money. There is just no way to justify the price of the saddle mount; I have just Googled the retail price of the saddle mount and it's now £350 odd. It part of the blindness that died in the wool Blaser owners suffer.... who couldn't but think they were having their pants pulled down when counting out £350 in cash for a set of factory mounts.
So, in summary a nice enough rifle but no value for money. There are plenty of better rifles out there for less money.
especially if they happened to currently have an R93 up for sale in the sales section
Alles klar.
OK, I'm gonna fall over myself............
3 million Blaser owners in europe alone and it's the same yank who completely overloaded/exceeded recommendations, and who sadly paid a heavy price for his irresponsibility/stupidity, who's sorry face we see in the pics. Proving?! that Blasers are a bag of sh!te...............
Is that it?
No conventional bolt action has ever catastrophically failed and blown a hand, face or head off?
One member of the forum has a misfire and that somehow proves ALL Blasers misfire, and of course ALL Blaser owners are tw*ts.
I have seen more misfires in one session at Bisley on standards twist and pull bolt actions than I will ever see with Blasers.
Inevitably they were the result of some smart*rse homeloader feckin it up, and it was their "ultra-reliable" Remmy 700, Tikka, Sako - whatever that the misfire occurred with.
OK, so some of you don't like Blasers, fair enough.
Some of us do.
They aren't perfect, as I said earlier, the internal magazine is a complete pain - but the rest of it is fine.
The locking mechanism for the bolt is similar to the breech lock on most semi-autos and indeed almost all military rifles, except that it holds on all around the breech not just on one or two points/recesses.
But, hey I guess god-knows-how-many millions of M1 Garands, M14's, SLR's, AK's, CK's, M16's, AR15's and the rest must be utterly unreliable too eh?
3 million Blaser owners in europe alone and it's the same yank who completely overloaded/exceeded recommendations, and who sadly paid a heavy price for his irresponsibility/stupidity, who's sorry face we see in the pics. Proving?! that Blasers are a bag of sh!te...............
Is that it?
No conventional bolt action has ever catastrophically failed and blown a hand, face or head off?
One member of the forum has a misfire and that somehow proves ALL Blasers misfire, and of course ALL Blaser owners are tw*ts.
I have seen more misfires in one session at Bisley on standards twist and pull bolt actions than I will ever see with Blasers.
Inevitably they were the result of some smart*rse homeloader feckin it up, and it was their "ultra-reliable" Remmy 700, Tikka, Sako - whatever that the misfire occurred with.
OK, so some of you don't like Blasers, fair enough.
Some of us do.
They aren't perfect, as I said earlier, the internal magazine is a complete pain - but the rest of it is fine.
The locking mechanism for the bolt is similar to the breech lock on most semi-autos and indeed almost all military rifles, except that it holds on all around the breech not just on one or two points/recesses.
But, hey I guess god-knows-how-many millions of M1 Garands, M14's, SLR's, AK's, CK's, M16's, AR15's and the rest must be utterly unreliable too eh?
Grandhubert
Well-Known Member
I enjoy slagging blaser's off because it causes their owners so much distress.
Just the thought of watching their lower lips wibble as I call their pride and joy the Katie Price of hunting rifles ( Plastic and with the fastest action in the business ) is one of life's little pleasures.
Nice rifles, by the way.
I do actually quite like them.
Just the thought of watching their lower lips wibble as I call their pride and joy the Katie Price of hunting rifles ( Plastic and with the fastest action in the business ) is one of life's little pleasures.
Nice rifles, by the way.
I do actually quite like them.
Re-read my post to Caorach timed 19:23hrs yesterday. It isn't 'one' it's 'lots'.
That's the Blaser 'odd' thing again. Why do Blaser owners feel that talking about a rifle is a personal slight against them?! IT ISN'T!
Confusion of terms here. The Blaser fault is a 'failure to fire'. The gun design occasionally doesn't do it's thing. Misfires are an ammunition fault. I think we've all (me included) been slack with our language. Two very different reasons for 'no bang'. The widely known but denied Blaser thing is a failure to fire. As before re-read post dated 19:23hrs yesterday -so that it's not just my view, take particular note of how Caorach described it elsewhere.
Of the millions and millions in service . Waaay more reliable
. And worth noting that if the bolt and carrier come back in a military semi, it will be caught by the receiver and not make it to your face. Rifle won't look pretty, but you won't be chewing bolt carrier. As I said; I don't own any Blasers anymore
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Blasers are the Harley Davidsons of the world, owned by millions of accountants, doctors and lawyers who are living the dream.
If you want a saddle bag for your Harley and you want it from Harley Davidson you will pay six times as much for the next best equivalent in the market place. Why? Because you are living the dream and are a proud owner of Harley Davidson....
They just aren't worth it.
Mungler, ex Harley and ex R93 owner
If you want a saddle bag for your Harley and you want it from Harley Davidson you will pay six times as much for the next best equivalent in the market place. Why? Because you are living the dream and are a proud owner of Harley Davidson....
They just aren't worth it.
Mungler, ex Harley and ex R93 owner
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