Bolt and rifle number don't match - don't matter?!?

[M275]

Where bolts are removed from rifles for security reasons, then it's inevitable that they will get mixed up on occasions. Been there, done that..

Even long and short action bolts can get exchanged, which is a safety issue if you have rear-locking lugs as it's possible to fire the cartridge with half of it outside the chamber.

It's most likely the bolts were switched over after they left the factory, somewhere along the supply chain.

 

[melgalvis]

Response from Dealer: "Having spoken to SMK the importers and suppliers of this gun and they have checked other guns in stock and they do not have matching numbers.
All guns arrive boxed and do not get separated from there bolts according to them."

Response from supplier: "We can advise that this rifle has been to Birmingham Proof House where it has been tested and approved by them, so we believe that this rifle is perfectly safe to use. We hope that this gives you and your customer piece of mind."

I plan to ask for an official statement from them regarding; headspace, proofing, warranty, resale value etc

 

[Essexsussex]

Regardless of the primary issue, that of safety, won't it effect the resale value in the future? If you have raised this question now surely a purchaser in the future may do the same? I would be pretty admant that my new rifle needs to have a bolt with the same bolt number. Also what happens to numbers on your license etc? All a bit unsatisfactory assuming the numbers usually match up. Worth a post on here to see if Remington users have matching bolt and gun numbers? Should tell you if this is usual or unusual.

ES

 

[EMcC]

The bolt mix-up I referred to in post 16 was because at the time I had two Remington .243's and two Remington .308's and the bolts were removed from the rifles and kept separately.
As I have already stated, the bolts all seemed to be interchangeable and proved so in the case where I did get mixed between the .243 and .308 bolt with no ill affects.
As regards the reply from the supplier, if they can get the word 'piece' and 'peace' mixed up, it is quite possible they could get anything else mixed up too
I would sooner have peace of mind than a piece of somebody's mind

 

[Bandit Country]

As regards the reply from the supplier, if they can get the word 'piece' and 'peace' mixed up, it is quite possible they could get anything else mixed up too
I would sooner have peace of mind than a piece of somebody's mind

They're also a little incoherent with their adverbs and possessive pronouns....

 

[long_range_rob]

Buy Sako, buy once.

 

[Essexsussex]

Buy Sako, buy once.

Or should that be buy once....in several calibres!

 

[M275]

I can't believe that Remington would bother to put a number on a bolt if it's unrelated to the serial number of the gun. I'll check a couple of M700s next time I get a chance.

The Sakos I've owned have all had the last 3 digits of the gun's serial number hand-engraved (or rather scratched..) under the bolt handle. The Sauers I've owned have all had the last 4 digits of the gun's serial number neatly stamped on the bolt body in a typically Germanic and thorough fashion.

 

[melgalvis]

M275; that's my feeling. Why scratch (rather than neatly inscribe as you say) a number in to a bolt if it's not relevant to anything?

i'd be interested to see what comes back on m700's

i was advised to start a new post on the subject for remy owners so hopefully I'll get some feedback there

cheers

 

[Mr. Gain]

This doesn't add up.

If Remington state in their manual that the numbers should match, either:

• the manual is incorrect/out-of-date
• Remington have mixed up the bolts in a lot of rifles, some of which have been sent to SMK (SMK should have referred this back to Remington and ensured you got a direct answer from them)
• SMK have mixed up the bolts (why would they even take them out?)
• The bolts have been mixed up by the Proof House (we don't know if SMK's check for matched bolts applied only to proofed rifles)
• SMK didn't actually check but decided the universal mismatch line was the most convenient to shoot (I don't have any reason to believe that is their style)

The rifle may indeed be safe to shoot, but which of these entities is going to foot the bill in the event of a problem?

I wouldn't shoot this rifle. I would return it, obtain a refund, and buy something else.

 

[melgalvis]

My planned email to Sportsmarketing. Given this is a new domain for me, are these the correct answers and the correct terminology?

Many thanks for your reply on my query/concern via the RFD. I do however have a follow up request to ensure I have complete peace of mind.

I would very much appreciate a formal statement from Sportmarketing SMK UK and/or Remington noting:

- There is an error in the Owner's Manual, or the Owner's manual is out of date and the number on the bolt does not need to match the last three digits on the receiver
- There will be no issue chambering ammunition caused by a bolt with a differing number to that on the receiver being used
- Headspacing does not need to be checked prior to first firing of the rifle, and there will be no issue with headspace causing case head separation due the use of a bolt with a number differing from that on the receiver
- Using a bolt with a different number to that of the receiver does not affect the product warranty
- Using a bolt with a different number to that of the receiver does not affect the product value
- Sportmarketing SMK UK will cover the cost of any damage resulting from bolt/rifle incompatibility
- The rifle is completely safe to use (excuse my scepticism, but not simply 'believe' its safe to use)

Before I fire this weapon, I want to ensure that 1) I am completely safe, 2) I do not affect the product warranty, 3) I have not affected the resale value of the rifle.

In all of this, what I fail to understand is why Remington would go to the time and effort to inscribe numbers on to bolts if they are of little relevance, especially as the manual states the numbers should match, and bolts are "not interchangeable"???

Your prompt reply is appreciated

 

[Essexsussex]

Hi Melgavis

I am wondering if you are wedded to getting a Remington? I would have thought that this has caused you enough concern to get a refund and try again with another brand? It would be terrible if it spoiled your enjoyment of or confidence in a new shooter.

Will

 

[M275]

That looks very comprehensive to me.

I'd be inclined to call or email Remington first, US firearms companies tend to have responsive customer relations. If it turns out that Remington mean what they say in the user manual, then the UK distributors will not be able to continue with their current approach.

I checked a couple of 700s from 1986 and 2002 and the last 4 digits of the rifles are engraved on the bolts:

 

[melgalvis]

Essexsussex, thanks for your post. I'm certainly not wedded to the Remy, and could/would easily switch to a Howa 1500 (it's in my budget!). My concern lies with their statement of not being interchangeable and having the numbers (what seems to be) manually inscribed - why? If this is to prevent confusion of bolt switching between similar calibres; makes sense and I would be happy to use the rifle, but if it is black and white and bolt and rifle are truly paired then that scares me! That said, the more I read the more I am inclined to return!!

Especially since M275 has just responded with what I thought would be the case - matching! (thanks for your assistance on this M275).

I'll send the above mail and see what kind of response I get...but in my mind, the last thing I want every time I pull that trigger is to think, what if this is the one that goes wrong?!!

 

[Wrens Mews]

Ring remington in the US they will be more than helpful! Dont email anyone, ring them.

Mike

 

[8x57]

Something has gone seriously wrong post manufacture melgavis. While it may not be something all novices are aware of bolts are indeed matched to rifles during manufacture and as you say it is common practise to engrave the last three or four digits of the serial number of the rifle on the bolt. You may well have uncovered quite a problem for Remington and their distributors. Seems like someone doesn't know what they are doing somewhere along the line.

You got me doubting myself as it's something I normally check when buying a rifle so I went to the cabinet and checked my rifles. The Sako did indeed show the last three digits of the serial number but for the life of me I can't find any markings on the A-Bolt but I will have a look again later. My excuse for not noticing this earlier is that I was recovering from illness when I purchased the Browning, well that's my excuse anyway and I'm sticking to it.

 

[User00003]

personally I don't see why bolts should be separated from their mated actions after proof. If required in storage then surely they would be kept with misc. documents and warrenty cards provided with that specific rifle. If gunshops are piling bolts in bulk together and picking one for a rifle when sold, then jesus christ! F***k me and all the kings men...

as for headspacing, I'm quite certain that most factories simply go through a bunch of bolts with a go-no go gauge and once a 'fit' is found, that one is mated to the action in question. They're not made 'for' a specific action as such. same with stocks, on the assembly line there will be a huge number of stocks, trigger units, etc. and the 'best' fit for a certain barrelled action, trigger, bottom metal etc. will be chosen and put together. it's a simple as that really.

 

[8x57]

personally I don't see why bolts should be separated from their mated actions after proof. If required in storage then surely they would be kept with misc. documents and warrenty cards provided with that specific rifle. If gunshops are piling bolts in bulk together and picking one for a rifle when sold, then jesus christ! F***k me and all the kings men...

.

Quite right Sir, as you say just asking for trouble!

Melgalvis you may well have opened quite a can of worms here. While it may not be Remington's fault it certainly asks questions about the distribution network.

Perhaps also it answers the question why so many "gunsmiths" find it necessary to blue print Remington actions.

 

[User00003]

maybe a website for remmy owners called remmy-match.com where you can put ad's out to locate the bolt that actually belongs to your rifle!

 

[JeffYoung]

While neither manual mentions it, my Weatherby (Howa 1500 action) has last 3 digits scratched under bolt handle, and my CZ 455 has last 3 digits stamped on back of bolt handle.