Hillhunter
Active Member
What do people use instead of lemishine, I'm going to start wet tumbling and need an alternative
Brass cleaner
- Thread starter Hillhunter
- Start date
enfieldspares
Well-Known Member
I don't. I just use the media as it comes...the green coloured stuff...and throw it away and buy new when it loses its effectiveness. If cases are muddy I'll wash them in hot water and Fairy liquid or the Sainsbury and/or Co-op equivalent.
Lemishine is basically citric acid...there is a science project article about a guy experimenting and analysing to find out what it was and he got it to 99% or similar citric acid. Google will find it.
The citric acid is a mild pickle which removes the tarnish, some people use white vinegar which is more aggressive at room temperature. Citric acid works best warm . Whichever you use it is necessary to rinse well immediately the cases are removed from the acid. I usually drain the cleaning solution off and do a quick hot water flush then into a jar with a soda bicarb solution, then another longer hot water rinse.
I use a teaspoonful of citric acid and a couple of drops of washing up liquid to a 1lb honey jar, fill with hot water and put 20 or so cases into it in the Ultrasonic bath. You will obviously need a bit more for a tumbler full, but the ratio seems okay.
Just don't use anything with ammonia in it like Brasso.
I buy the 5kilo bags of citric acid from eBay rather than the 50gramme ones, useful stuff for all sorts of cleaning.
Alan
The citric acid is a mild pickle which removes the tarnish, some people use white vinegar which is more aggressive at room temperature. Citric acid works best warm . Whichever you use it is necessary to rinse well immediately the cases are removed from the acid. I usually drain the cleaning solution off and do a quick hot water flush then into a jar with a soda bicarb solution, then another longer hot water rinse.
I use a teaspoonful of citric acid and a couple of drops of washing up liquid to a 1lb honey jar, fill with hot water and put 20 or so cases into it in the Ultrasonic bath. You will obviously need a bit more for a tumbler full, but the ratio seems okay.
Just don't use anything with ammonia in it like Brasso.
I buy the 5kilo bags of citric acid from eBay rather than the 50gramme ones, useful stuff for all sorts of cleaning.
Alan
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Hillhunter
Active Member
Thanks for the replies
Having looked in ultrasonic cleaning last year I bought a decent sized 6l model from fleabay last year with a view to using it to clean up bike bits etc etc as well as brass.
Professional Ultrasonic Cleaner 6L DIGITAL SMART DEGAS! heating SS Basket cover | eBay
Pretty expensive but I went for this one as it had a decent spec and a de-gassing function...glad I went for the 6l model, those baskets ain't as big as you think.
Finally got round to trying it last week when faced with over a 100 .17Rem cases to do..... as per Alantoo I used a large squat jam/honey jar for the cases to keep the main tank water clean. I'd bought some seaclean (rapidsupplies) but even after several goes it just wasn't touching the crud.
I'd also bought some of the food grade VitC crystals and a level teaspoon of that in the jar with a small squirt of Fairy..... and bloody hell! What a difference!
5 minutes at 40c, Into to a sieve, solution back into the jar for the next 20 cases, rinse under the cold tap then into a jug of hot water with a teaspoon on Bicarbonate of Soda, a good swirl round in that then a rinse in hot water. By the time I'd finished the next lot were ready...... cracked through them all in no time.
Id also bought a food dehydrator from Lakeland to dry the cases off and a week later, there's no sign of tarnishing. All for 2 teaspoons n a squirt of Fairy....result, wish I'd done it years ago! Much less laborious than manually cleaning inside necks in the drill and reaming primer pockets
Cheers
Fizz
Professional Ultrasonic Cleaner 6L DIGITAL SMART DEGAS! heating SS Basket cover | eBay
Pretty expensive but I went for this one as it had a decent spec and a de-gassing function...glad I went for the 6l model, those baskets ain't as big as you think.
Finally got round to trying it last week when faced with over a 100 .17Rem cases to do..... as per Alantoo I used a large squat jam/honey jar for the cases to keep the main tank water clean. I'd bought some seaclean (rapidsupplies) but even after several goes it just wasn't touching the crud.
I'd also bought some of the food grade VitC crystals and a level teaspoon of that in the jar with a small squirt of Fairy..... and bloody hell! What a difference!
5 minutes at 40c, Into to a sieve, solution back into the jar for the next 20 cases, rinse under the cold tap then into a jug of hot water with a teaspoon on Bicarbonate of Soda, a good swirl round in that then a rinse in hot water. By the time I'd finished the next lot were ready...... cracked through them all in no time.
Id also bought a food dehydrator from Lakeland to dry the cases off and a week later, there's no sign of tarnishing. All for 2 teaspoons n a squirt of Fairy....result, wish I'd done it years ago! Much less laborious than manually cleaning inside necks in the drill and reaming primer pockets
Cheers
Fizz
phaedra
Well-Known Member
At the strength citric acid (a mild acid to start with) is being used in this application and the time involved, the amount of brass affected is negligible to start with (a molecule or two's thickness). It's enough to remove the surface molecule's tarnish and that's about it in most cases. If you're doing much more than that, you're using too much citric acid, not enough water and keeping the brass in the liquid for too long.
A case of a little is good and more is NOT "better." In any case, not structurally or functionally harmful to the brass.
Too much citric acid will darken the brass, from what I've seen and read. It also leaches out zinc from the brass, Citric acid is used in leaching metals from RCRA classified hazardous waste under the CA STLC process.
Basically a very small amount will remove the surface tarnish, add to that just enough detergent to get some soapy bubbles after tumbling and that should be the perfect ratio. Always change the water during the tumble and thoroughly rinse the cases when finished tumbling.
A case of a little is good and more is NOT "better." In any case, not structurally or functionally harmful to the brass.
Too much citric acid will darken the brass, from what I've seen and read. It also leaches out zinc from the brass, Citric acid is used in leaching metals from RCRA classified hazardous waste under the CA STLC process.
Basically a very small amount will remove the surface tarnish, add to that just enough detergent to get some soapy bubbles after tumbling and that should be the perfect ratio. Always change the water during the tumble and thoroughly rinse the cases when finished tumbling.
I agree with everything you say here, but to put it in perspective citric acid is rated identically to potable water as far as the extent of dezincification of Cartridge Brass goes...according to the Copper Development Association.
Copper.org - C26000 Alloy
What I am still having problems with though is your earlier statement that more than a 1/4 of a teaspoonful will actually reduce the effectiveness of the wet tumbling process. I understand that too much may be of no advantage, but I was just curious how it made it worse.
Alan
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phaedra
Well-Known Member
Perhaps a better phrase would have been "using more will not improve the cleaning process but can actually darken the brass resulting in cases that are less "shiny". I've also found the "slimy-ness" of the water is worse using more citric acid, the cases needing more rinsing afterwards, I usually put a splash of dishwasher rinse aid in the final rinse then remove as much water as I can using centrifugal force (cases put in a towel like a rock in a sling shot and spun round at speed!) then off into a warm Halogen for about 30 mins or so at 80-100c
The optimum amount depends on the quantity and hardness of the water used, up here we have pretty soft water so 1/4 tsp for using a 7L Frankford Arsenal Platinum tumbler is enough, even with really hard water 1/2 tsb seems to be all that's needed in say a Thumblers or Rebel 17 sized drum.
The optimum amount depends on the quantity and hardness of the water used, up here we have pretty soft water so 1/4 tsp for using a 7L Frankford Arsenal Platinum tumbler is enough, even with really hard water 1/2 tsb seems to be all that's needed in say a Thumblers or Rebel 17 sized drum.
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Gotcha, understood. Thank you for clearing that up! 
Alan
Alan
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