Can a breeder stop you from breeding

[NullMac]

Well 2 points

a) do you live next door, if not how is anybody going to know
b) what loss has she suffered if you breach the contract, so what value can she sue you for? Not going to get very far in any legal process. You can't just sue somebody 'cos you have got the hump. There has to be a loss.

 

[countrryboy]

Quite right too! Congenital defects don't pop up simply as a result of poor breeding on one side. It needs to be there on both. Seems to me that the breeders are using these endorsements to hide faults in their own bloodlines. About time they got taken down a peg or two, by the sounds of it.

To put it in a nutshell, I would say that anyone putting non breeding endorsements on pups isn't trying to protect something, they're trying to hide something, and I would avoid their bloodlines like the plague.

To be fair after i posted that i did think the exact same, it takes genes on both sides.
But i still think its fair enough to put restrictions on to insist on health tests or working ability if u want too..

Mibbee different in farming circles or mibbee u have a different attitude as ur business is breeding animals to sell, but some complete rogues in the gundog/dog world althou being honest most of the poor breeding is down to ones folk that have no idea how poor their own dog is.
But u also see plenty of rubbish sheep dogs on my travels round farms and always 1 getting nipped by god knows wot

Cockers esp can be bad for noise which does tend to run in certain lines, some of the noisy cockers i've seen bred from as 'quality working' dogs when yes they do go to shoots but never get off the lead and scream the place down.
Going back 15 odd years ago 1 lad always had 2-3 litters of pups a year as he got older keeper put him as a stop (to save him walking) in front of wood his dogs screamed and howled so bad he was sending birds out the back and they are allegedly 'quality working' dogs

Generally now i'd only buy a dog of someone i know or recommended by someone i know

And if a dog does really badly then the chances are it won't be alive for long enough to pass on its genes. (Or it would be rehomed to a non-working (pet) situation or for agility or something like that).

Ur last statement is probably why we have different opinions, 30+ years ago that was the case and still will bet the case with some farmers/keepers

Ur average dog breeder now wouldn't have a clue how good or bad there dog is, a massive lack of basically stockmanship or stockmans eye to really asses ur own dogs strengths and weaknesses, is it good enough to red from and if so wot type of sire would suit it?
All the above is lacking in an awful lot of litters bred.

As for the OP
U don't say if a pet or not?
If not really wanting pups it doesnae really matter any restrictions, as long as breeder completely upfront about it and ur happy dinae see a problem, if not go elsewhere.
But by sound of it u will probably struggle to get pups of a similar quality and reared to a high standard elsewhere

 

[Lloyd90]

Well 2 points

a) do you live next door, if not how is anybody going to know
b) what loss has she suffered if you breach the contract, so what value can she sue you for? Not going to get very far in any legal process. You can't just sue somebody 'cos you have got the hump. There has to be a loss.

a) The endorsement stops you registering the pups with the kennel club.
If you bred the dog you could sell the pups as non registered, but the kennel club would not let you register the pups with the endorsement on the bitch.
So effectively they wouldn't need to know, you won't be able to register the pups even if you tried to hide the fact you went behind the original breeders back.


The best answer by far, is to avoid all this nonsence, and only buy a pup where the original breeder doesn't put conditions on you or the bitch.
I would not buy a dog that came with conditions.

b) if you break the contract (If they give you a seperate contract aside from an endorsement on the pedigree) then I assume you may outline what their so called loss would be.
Although I think it is much more likely they would simply be a restriction on the bitch, so they wouldn't need to take you to court, you simply would not be able to KC register the pups.

 

[patrickt]

My sister in law is looking to get a springer spaniel. She has been told by the breeder that if she has one of the pups, it’s in the contract that you can’t breed from the pup you purchased. Not heard of this before, is it common? Can they legally do this??
Looking forward to your replies on this one. Thanks

I wonder if they signed a similar contract, or once having done so thought mmmmmmmmm I think I will do that!!.

Just A Thought

Patrick

 

[mudman]

We bough a Bedlington Terrier pup a few years ago and the 'contract' stipulated that we couldn't breed from him without prior approval of the mating by the seller. She explained this as she needed to know the pedigree of any potential Dam for health reasons, as she had a good understanding of problems in certain lines etc, if all was good she would allow us use him as a stud on a case by case basis.

subsequently we did request 'permission' for it to mate with a certain bitch and the original breeder allowed it, I think one of the reasons being that she had bred the bitch herself.

 

[potshotpat]

Just to put another spin on it, where would you stand breeding the dog with the contract restrictions with another breed. Say springer to cocker. Asking for a friend.

 

[baguio]

Just to put another spin on it, where would you stand breeding the dog with the contract restrictions with another breed. Say springer to cocker. Asking for a friend.

Well, like half these posts on here have already said, it only restricts registering with the kennel club. You may not be aware but sprockers, cockerpoos, springerdors and the like aren't KC registered breeds so it would be irrelevant!

 

[catzrob]

If it is in the contract it will be enforceable. If the breeder bothers. As others have said offspring won’t by KC registrable.

However the breeder’s recourse will be limited to damages. Since the breeder’s damages are probably zero, there probably isn’t much practical consequence (beyond the registration).

 

[countrryboy]

Well, like half these posts on here have already said, it only restricts registering with the kennel club. You may not be aware but sprockers, cockerpoos, springerdors and the like aren't KC registered breeds so it would be irrelevant!

Are 1x mongrals not now eligible for KC registration now.
They seen loosing too much money with all these cockerpoo's etc.

But if only the 1x gen is allowed to be registered u'd have to be off ur head to waste ur money registering them as that pup will never be allowed to register its pups anyway as 2 gen X.
Defeats the whole point in registering a pup

 

[Dunwaters]

If it is in the contract it will be enforceable. If the breeder bothers. As others have said offspring won’t by KC registrable.

However the breeder’s recourse will be limited to damages. Since the breeder’s damages are probably zero, there probably isn’t much practical consequence (beyond the registration).

Theres 2 separate restrictions being talked about here, you can have an endorsement on a KC pedigree specifying that the pups may not be registered, you may still breed if you want, but the pups can’t be registered unless the breeder contacts the KC and removes the endorsement.
A contract from the seller is a separate issue. You’re entering into an agreement to do or not do something, it may have nothing to do with the KC.
I wouldn’t be interested in signing one, if I buy a dog, its my dog, if you don’t like that then I’ll take my custom elsewhere.
Frankly, unless the endorsement is for good veterinary reasons, its a bit of an imposition, you’re restricting someone else’s right to do as they see fit with something you’ve sold them.

 

[Jeff8861]

This is common practice basically breeders protecting thier lines. If you don't like buy elsewhere

 

[Bo Diddley]

With regard to the Cockerpoo, Labradoodle, etc, and the Kennel Club, I'm sure I watched a little bit of Crufts on the goggle box, and they were saying that they are being considered for entering the KC, I suppose they can see they are losing an awful lot of money. Apparently, you can now get F1 & F2 in these crossbreds. What is it all coming to, in the blink of an eye they will be registering Patterdales next!

 

[steve221158]

I was heavily involved in gun dogs and as stated by some it’s to protect the blood lines and the puppy would not have been sold unless you agreed to conditions.

 

[Big Buff]

Cartel same as OPEC ….. Could you imagine buying a car from a main dealer with the clause which went ‘Buy a car from me and I’ll give you it at an exorbitantly price as it’s not made from recycled material only virgin materials …. but you can’t sell it on to anyone bar me and I’ll tell you how little I’ll give you for it !’ GTF !!!! ….. Tell the KC cartel to swivel and buy a pup from someone else as a dog with a pedigree the length of your arm doesn’t guarantee it’s going to be a healthy happy genetically strong dog does it ?…. Let’s face it mongrels, cross breeds and dogs of every shape and form are fetching very good money these days under the guise of new names ….. wanna buy a dawberdoodle or ttwwaatterdale terrier ? ….. you pays your money and wonder why something that cost £500 three years ago now costs £2-2.5k …… these people must laughing their heads off

 

[Bowland blades]

unfair contracts has it covered! Better bet though if you want to breed is buy from another and save a load of hassle.
The problem is none registered pups ( which was widely used to prevent breeding ) can be undone by the kennel club for a fee. One of my labs was bought like that but i dont give a squeeky fart about using him for the purpose of money making and would like to be able to buy another pup from the persons in question in future years , more than i value a few stud fees
By UK law you cannot sign away your lawful rights no matter what's written in a contract of sale.

 

[countrryboy]

Cartel same as OPEC ….. Could you imagine buying a car from a main dealer with the clause which went ‘Buy a car from me and I’ll give you it at an exorbitantly price as it’s not made from recycled material only virgin materials …. but you can’t sell it on to anyone bar me and I’ll tell you how little I’ll give you for it !’ GTF !!!! ….. Tell the KC cartel to swivel and buy a pup from someone else as a dog with a pedigree the length of your arm doesn’t guarantee it’s going to be a healthy happy genetically strong dog does it ?…. Let’s face it mongrels, cross breeds and dogs of every shape and form are fetching very good money these days under the guise of new names ….. wanna buy a dawberdoodle or ttwwaatterdale terrier ? ….. you pays your money and wonder why something that cost £500 three years ago now costs £2-2.5k …… these people must laughing their heads off

If ur actually looking to buy or sell pups now u'll find ur 500 pup 3 years ago might only cost u 3-400 now possibly 500 at a push, market has callapsed back down to where it always should of been anyway.

If u want to buy some mongral off a puppy farmer off u go as u will have no way off knowing how many litters a bitch is having.

The KC has many faults but alteast with registering and limiting litters and breeding age they are trying to look after the bitches health.
I would imagine the breeders putting restrictions on are only doing it to try to protect there pups, which does show som sort of caring/duty of care for them going on.

I know of 1 'breeder' esp during the lock down price surge was knocking out 1 litter of pure cockers then a mongral litter the very next season, pooe bitch was almost constantly in pup or weaning,
I also know of a pro trainer that would give his dogs away at about 7 or 8 when to old to trial or breed to 'mates', he now speys all his bitches as he found out some where still breeding of them at 8 and 9 just to make money.
Not being happy getting a brilliantly trained dog for free.

End of day u have to make an assumption about the welfare of the bitch and pups when u visit them and guess why they were bred ( to keep a pup for breeder or money)
Personally i might be wary buying a pup if the breeder was not keeping a pup ( unless a well known breeder) and if i was happy with pup and its breeding i wouldn't be over concerned about te restrictions if i really wanted it, esp if just health/working tests, if it could.nt pass the tests it probably shouldn't be bred off anyway

 

[stonepark]

Potentially worth keeping in mind, contracts such as these are personal, i.e. they do not transfer with the dog but are between the breeder and the original purchaser, if the ownership of the dog subsequently changes, the contract will often be null and void.

 

[ruger 243]

Potentially worth keeping in mind, contracts such as these are personal, i.e. they do not transfer with the dog but are between the breeder and the original purchaser, if the ownership of the dog subsequently changes, the contract will often be null and void.

great minds etc.... sell it to yr wife, mam, dad, son . jobs a goodun

 

[Big Buff]

great minds etc.... sell it to yr wife, mam, dad, son . jobs a goodun