Can you I.D the bullet?

[Triggermortis]

This was found with my metal detector in the middle of a block of woodland on a private estate, looks to me to be a pistol bullet?
.360” diameter, 167gn in weight , round nosed, hollow tail and a copper jacket.
No I don’t know what bullet it is which is why I’m asking…

 

[wytonpjs]

Got something similar to that, especially the base. But mine is much longer - almost too long I believe for a bullet. Will post a picture tomorrow

 

[tackb]

38 Webley is my guess

 

[8x57]

.38 Smith & Wesson or .380 British as used in the Enfield/Webley service revolver. The service load was usually a 200grn bullet and often referred to as .380/200

 

[tackb]

back in the good old days we used to shoot them , a woefully underpowered round , the original loading was a 200gr bullet at around 500fps if i recall , i certainly recall being able to watch the bullets fly down range with the naked eye !

i think there was some work to improve it by dropping the weight and upping the velocity but ultimately it was just rubbish

 

[Triggermortis]

Got something similar to that, especially the base. But mine is much longer - almost too long I believe for a bullet. Will post a picture tomorrow

Probably an early 215gn .303 British, I understand they were the the round the .303 was designed to use.

 

[wytonpjs]

Probably an early 215gn .303 British, I understand they were the the round the .303 was designed to use.

Pictures attached, alongside a .308 130gr TTSX. In the same pit were regular .303 bullets shown in the last picture.

 

[wytonpjs]

This was found with my metal detector in the middle of a block of woodland on a private estate, looks to me to be a pistol bullet?
.360” diameter, 167gn in weight , round nosed, hollow tail and a copper jacket.
No I don’t know what bullet it is which is why I’m asking…
View attachment 437682View attachment 437683

Some picture of WWII pistol bullets recovered from a pit behind the butts on a former WWII airfield.

 

[tackb]

Probably an early 215gn .303 British, I understand they were the the round the .303 was designed to use.

the earliest 303 bullets were 215gr round nose , but they moved to spitzers and then i think the MK7 and MK8 ball was where they moved to boat tails but i'd have to check as the memory isn't what it was!

 

[tackb]

Some picture of WWII pistol bullets recovered from a pit behind the butts on a former WWII airfield.

View attachment 437719View attachment 437720

not sure they used truncated cone bullets in WW2 ?

 

[wytonpjs]

not sure they used truncated cone bullets in WW2 ?

All of these items, together with incendiary flares were recovered by ATO dealing with buried WOME found in contractors test pits for a barrack range butt height extension. As an aside, despite this incident occurring on an RAF airfield, Wittering would not let my RAF EOD personnel handle the incident and we had to await Felix support

Given the location, and the other items removed from the pits, I have no doubt this was a WWII "tidy-up".

 

[tackb]

All of these items, together with incendiary flares were recovered by ATO dealing with buried WOME found in contractors test pits for a barrack range butt height extension. As an aside, despite this incident occurring on an RAF airfield, Wittering would not let my RAF EOD personnel handle the incident and we had to await Felix support

Given the location, and the other items removed from the pits, I have no doubt this was a WWII "tidy-up".

was the range ever used by civvi shooters before the ban?

anyway no biggy

 

[wytonpjs]

was the range ever used by civvi shooters before the ban?

anyway no biggy

No, military range only.

As I said, given these bullets were mixed up with RAF wartime 4lb hexagonal 1BMkIV incendiaries in the same pit, they were buried at the same time during some point in the war when processes were a little more "relaxed" .

 

[tackb]

No, military range only.

As I said, given these bullets were mixed up with RAF wartime 4lb hexagonal 1BMkIV incendiaries in the same pit, they were buried at the same time during some point in the war when processes were a little more "relaxed" .

fair enough ,

they look like 45acp rather than 455 wobbly since the wobbly had a skirt because the chambers were tighter than the rifling at the front , we used to machine the constriction out so we could use better bullets (again pre ban) my wobbly would only shoot the HBHP navy bullets well

 

[8x57]

was the range ever used by civvi shooters before the ban?

Or could be privately owned firearms used by station personnel.
When I was in any privately owned firearms had to be stored in the station armoury.

Back in the 1980s there was a member of the RAF pistol club who I shot against a few times that got himself into a heap of grief for storing one of his pistols in his room locker of his accommodation block.

 

[tackb]

Or could be privately owned firearms used by station personnel.
When I was in any privately owned firearms had to be stored in the station armoury.

Back in the 1980s there was a member of the RAF pistol club who I shot against a few times that got himself into a heap of grief for storing one of his pistols in his room locker of his accommodation block.

these were the best bullets in my wobbly , a little birds head grip 3'' barrel gun

 

[wytonpjs]

Or could be privately owned firearms used by station personnel.
When I was in any privately owned firearms had to be stored in the station armoury.

Back in the 1980s there was a member of the RAF pistol club who I shot against a few times that got himself into a heap of grief for storing one of his pistols in his room locker of his accommodation block.

Possibly, but the point is the live hex incendiary was in there too in the same pit, so these bullets went into the ground in the 1940s AFAIC.

Coincidentally, whilst I was at HQSTC in the 90s I did a TACEVAL Pt2 on this same Unit some years prior to me becoming OC ME(G)S there (it didn't go well for reasons I will not go into here) but I do remember a senior RAF Officer in the WOC carrying his own personal sidearm - it was difficult not to notice it as it was bright nickel compared to the normal 1911s!

So it's entirely possible that other rounds were fired at this particular range over the recent years but as said above, a bit like archaeological test pits, the presence of these bullets with poorly disposed hex incendiary conclusive says to me that they went into the ground in the 40s.

 

[tackb]

Possibly, but the point is the live hex incendiary was in there too in the same pit, so these bullets went into the ground in the 1940s AFAIC.

Coincidentally, whilst I was at HQSTC in the 90s I did a TACEVAL Pt2 on this same Unit some years prior to me becoming OC ME(G)S there (it didn't go well for reasons I will not go into here) but I do remember a senior RAF Officer in the WOC carrying his own personal sidearm - it was difficult not to notice it as it was bright nickel compared to the normal 1911s!

So it's entirely possible that other rounds were fired at this particular range over the recent years but as said above, a bit like archaeological test pits, the presence of these bullets with poorly disposed hex incendiary conclusive says to me that they went into the ground in the 40s.

you ex mil love your acronyms

meaningless you know when you're talking to civvis

anyway an interesting story none the less , would that incendiary stuff still be dangerous now? possible more so i guess ?

 

[8x57]

The 185grn FMJ SWC .45 bullet which I think these bullets may be has been around for an awful long time, I don't know how long I will have to do some research.

Can you be absolutely certain that the incendiary bombs went into the hole in the 1940s? Is it say possible that they were stored for some years on base and then in the 1950s / 1660s or even later someone didn't come across them and say "what the hell are they doing there, quick get rid of the bloody things". At which point they were dumped in a hole along with a generous quantity of sand from the stop butts. After all the forces weren't always as safety conscious as they appear today and it was quite common to just dump things in a hole.

tackb asked "would that incendiary stuff still be dangerous now?"
Yes- we have a number of wartime training areas local to us and stuff turns up occasionally, especially stuff from the Home Guard and the auxiliary who seemed to have just walked away and left things in place when they were stood down.

 

[wytonpjs]

you ex mil love your acronyms

meaningless you know when you're talking to civvis

anyway an interesting story none the less , would that incendiary stuff still be dangerous now? possible more so i guess ?

HQSTC - Headquarters Strike Command
TACEVAL - Tactical Evaluation: Pt 1 Generation (to meet a Russian Threat coming West and Pt2 Sustained Operations). Fun doing a Pt1 on a late Friday evening - once I had to put more than half a shift in a "drunk tank" as they were unfit to work on aircraft/load weapons, etc. We used RAFP (RAF Police) to secure the main gate and then hit the hooter to let loose Armageddon - great fun being on the DS (Directing Staff).
OC ME(G)S - Officer Commanding Mechanical Engineering (Ground) Squadron - included the sexy things such as MT (Motor Transport), Station Workshops and Armaments Flights.
WOME - Weapons, Ordnance, Munitions and Explosives

Answer to was it still dangerous - certainly burned very well when my EOD (Explosives Ordnance Disposal) Team "blew" it up on Holbeach AWR (Air Weapons Range).