Choosing a new powder

[NigelM]

One for the keen reloaders amongst you.

Having reloaded for many years, and gone quite hard this year at improving accuracy and consistency I find myself looking for a few new powders.

In the 6.5 Lapua I have been running R15 under a 129 ABLR. Accuracy is stunning IF I tune my loads for the ambient temperature. However, on a summers day at 25 C velocity runs 60fps faster than on a winter 0 C day. The accuracy node is not that wide so I run 2 loads, an under 12 C load and an over 12 C load. Whilst shoots sub 1/2" with both loads on the right day I would much rather run a single powder that was less temperature sensitive.

I have a similar problem in the 280AI, exacerbated by the fact that IMR7828 is going to be banned next June, so it's not just a case of wanting to find a new powder, but having to find a new powder. Same with Varget in the 22BR in terms of the banning, although its temperature sensitivity is excellent.

So my two key criteria are finding a powder that has minimal temperature sensitivity AND is not due to be banned.

I found some good research on the temperature sensitivity of a number of powders which is below:
[TABLE="width: 585"]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="colspan: 2"][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[TABLE="width: 260"]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"][TABLE="width: 286"]
[TR]
[TD][TABLE="width: 321"]
[TR]
[TD]By Burn Rate[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]FPS/deg C[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]HS-6 [/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1.94[/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]H110/W296[/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1.98[/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Imr4227 [/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1.87[/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD]Banned[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Lil' Gun [/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2.10[/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]RL10x [/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1.14[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Benchmark[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.70[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Banned[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Imr3031 [/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1.17[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Banned[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Imr8208xbr [/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.94[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Banned[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]H4895[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.37[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Banned[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"]Alliant Varmint pro [/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1.42[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Alliant AR comp[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1.23[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Varget [/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.30[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Banned[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]W748[/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2.11[/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Imr4064 [/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.85[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Banned[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Ramshot Tac [/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1.46[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Imr4895 [/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1.39[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Banned[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]AA4064 [/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1.78[/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD]Banned[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]AA2520[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1.57[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Banned[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]RL15 [/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2.43[/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]PP2000MR [/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1.58[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Imr4320 [/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2.11[/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD]Banned[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Ramshot Biggame [/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1.57[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]H380 1.44[/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2.30[/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD]Banned[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]VV N150 [/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1.73[/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]H414/W760[/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2.27[/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD]Banned[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Imr4350 [/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1.02[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Banned[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]AA4350[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.75[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Banned[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]H4350[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.46[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Banned[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]RL17[/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2.27[/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Hybrid 100v[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1.25[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Banned[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]RL19[/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2.58[/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]VV N160[/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1.98[/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Imr4831 [/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1.90[/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD]Banned[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Ramshot Hunter[/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1.38[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]H4831[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.58[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Banned[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]RL22[/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2.74[/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Imr7828[/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2.18[/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD]Banned[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Magpro [/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1.62[/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD]Banned[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]H1000[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.34[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Banned[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]RL25[/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2.54[/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Ramshot Magnum[/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1.39[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Retumbo [/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0.78[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Banned[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]RL33[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1.36[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]US869 [/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2.69[/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD]Banned[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]H50bmg[/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2.62[/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD]Banned[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

What I'm missing is any good data for Reload Swiss powders and other VV powders. At the moment the best of what's left legal looks like Ramshot Big Game, Ramshot Magnum and Ramshot Tac for the three applications.

Can anyone help by filling in the blanks with good proven information for powders I am missing? If I have got any of my information wrong as to whats going to be banned I would appreciate being put right too.

Thanks for your help, NigelM

 

[Yorric]

Nigel - Your quest is a worthy one & one I share! - I wish you well in your efforts.

The difficulty will be in getting values for all the missing powders tested in exactly the same conditions - A n'y-on practical impossibility in the real world .
Your list looks good but will only apply at best to one particular chambering, bullet & primer etc mix of parameters. Not knowing what these were means new data cannot be added with any usefuly accurate outcome.

(Hopefully Laurie will be along soon & give us a clue to the road to Nirvana. --- He is our best guru in all things powder.)

Ian

 

[finnbear270]

Reloader Swiss staff are willing to help with your quest, & I might add, they work 7 days a week, or so they informed me. Steve. Or you could ask Yorric to wipe his crystal! .

 

[NigelM]

Message sent to RS. Let's see if they do work 24/7

I have already been discussing this with Laurie. There just seems to be very little hard data out there to go on. If it is possible to find some before I spend a lot of time and money making a mistake it would be good.

Managed to screen shot the table. The left side has powders by burn rate. The right by temperature sensitivity.

Red letters mean they are to be banned. Red highlight is those with a sensitivity greater than 1 fps/deg F

As you can see from the table on the right, everything that has a good low sensitivity to temperature is due to be banned.



I'm just trying to find something that will remain legal towards the top of the table.

 

[nun_hunter]

This is something I was aware of but hadn't really considered living in the South East but from looking at your table I am already using Ramshot Hunter so hopefully will be ok.

 

[NigelM]

For what it's worth...

I have been playing Quickload today. I added the new IMR Enduron's to my list, as Laurie pointed me toward Brian Litz study on 4166 and 4451 which suggests their temperature sensitivity between 0 and 20 degrees is around 0.5 fps/ deg F. I also added RS50 and RS62 to my list, as these Reload Swiss single base powders are likely to be reasonably temperature stable.

The Quickload results were interesting, showing the both the RS and Enduron powders to be 50-80 fps slower than I am used to at max pressures. The accuracy nodes I have found on all the rifles are pretty toppy so I would not be able to achieve them with these powders.

The clear winner on all chamberings was Ramshot, equalling or slightly bettering my current powders in all cases in a cooler burning powder. The temperature sensitivity is better than anything I'm using, and although not fantastic it is manageable if I do my load development at around 10 degrees, the middle of the likely usage range.

So the outcome is:

280ai - Ramshot Magnum
6.5 Lapua and 7mm08 - Ramshot Big Game
22BR - Ramshot Tac

Time to go shopping and prove the theory...or otherwise.

 

[Precision123]

I'm just about to try N150 in my new Bergara 6.5 swede. I'll let you know.
P123

 

[Odders]

I've always been happy with Varget & H4831sc, so I've made sure I have a goodly supply to hand that should see me through 2020 or thereabouts.

That way, I can sit back & let everyone else do the donkey work with alternative powders before choosing a couple of replacements & working up loads for them.

 

[finnbear270]

I've always been happy with Varget & H4831sc, so I've made sure I have a goodly supply to hand that should see me through 2020 or thereabouts.

That way, I can sit back & let everyone else do the donkey work with alternative powders before choosing a couple of replacements & working up loads for them.

Now you have let on, You might have to comply with a powder amnesty!

 

[Odders]

Now you have let on, You might have to comply with a powder amnesty!

Knowing the onanists in charge, that's all too plausible...