I doubt it, they tend to do as they please. What is the safety angle? Left a bit, right a bit....fire!
Civilian rifle range plans
- Thread starter goldypurple
- Start date
Underground is always best as what the eye doesn't see and the ear can't hear ...……………………..
K
K
Sinistral
Well-Known Member
Okay.
Some rules & RSC detail which may not be relevant to this thread, but apply to my Home Office Approved Club:-
A Range Safety Certificate (RSC) has to be displayed by the Range Operator on every range, stating:-
1. Location
2. Range Operator ( Name & Address)
3. Range Designation
4. Firing Distances
5. Target Centre Height
6. No. of Firing Points
7. Approved Firing Postures
8. Ammunition Limitations
9. Restrictions, Dispensations, or Additional Requirements
10 Declaration:
"I, being the Responsible Person, certify that this range complies with the principles, policies and criteria in the National Governing Body Advice on the Design, Construction, and Maintenance of Target Shooting Ranges, and will be used in accordance with advice given in the National Governing Body Management Document."
Date of Certification Certified by - Full Name - Signature - Office Held
Reference No AN/XXNN/N.
The RSC's are issued by a private contractor/consultancy, renewable every 5 years. They all follow the same pattern, but the detail differs for each range.
The 25M or 50M RSC's aren't of much interest to me or probably TSD, but the 100 yd RSC below is typical of those in force at our HOAC which has about 450 members. .
The Club has a private outdoor range complex (25m, 50yds, 100yds NDA) on agricultural land on a 10 year renewable lease.
We also own our indoor range freehold in a nearby town, with two 25M gallery rifle/smallbore ranges.
The 100yd NDA range (8 enclosed firing points) was an old Home Guard 50yd range dating from 1929, a little before my time.
It has been in continuous use by the club since then (apart from WWII). The 100yd range was added in 2007 on a shared use/expenses basis with the police TFU.
That arrangement ended a few years ago due to the BCH forces amalgamation.
I don't know this with certainty, but believe our RSC's are the 'standard issue' ones in force on most short distance ranges of this particular type, including MOD.
They are all in metric now, so I've added the imperial conversions.
(100 yd)
Range Designation Outdoor No Danger Area
Firing Distances
100 yards Rifle Calibres
50m to 25m Rifle & Pistol Calibres
25m to 10m Pistol Calibres only
Target Centre Height 1.5m
No. of Firing Points 8
Approved Firing Postures Prone,Kneeling, Sitting & Standing
Ammunition Limitations
Rifle Calibres (MV 1000m/s ME 7000J) [3280fps/5163fpe]
Pistol Calibres (MV 655m/s ME 2030J) [2150fps/1497fpe]
Sub 0.25" (MV 1220m/s ME 2400J) [4000fps/1770fpe]
Restrictions, Dispensations, Additional Requirements
Distances greater than 50 metres supported positions only.
If using knock down targets these must be mounted at least 1m into the bullet catcher.
Hope this helps.
gonzo
Well-Known Member
Small correction to previous replies.....
Don't mix up HO approved club status and range inspection/certification.
The approved club scheme is down to the record keeping and oversight of membership. You need to be a member of an HO approved club if your FAC is conditioned for target use. But anyone can set up a target shooting club.
However, at a non approved club, you can only shoot your own guns. No sharing or club guns. As that relies on the section 15(1) exemption that only HO clubs can use. (Unless it is a 'minature rifle range', which are a special case, at the moment.)
How any range is deemed to be 'suitable for the safe use of that class of firearm', is a more wooly.
The actual range certification is done by the range operator. The NRA and NSRA will offer inspections and issue insopection reports. And those reports have no legal weight. This will be usually supplied after an inspection, but the sign off is left blank for the range operator to put their details.
Both organisations have global insurance policies in place which they will add affiliated organoisations to, under their rules. For NSRA they insist on there having been a range inspection (they will also accept ones done by the NRA) before adding you to their policy.
NRA do not require an inspection. You just apply (and pay) and you are insured.
However, if there were to be an incident, then the insurers will be looking for a way of passing the blame. And having the inspections should put you in a better position.
And of course, having bits of paper to wave tends to make people in authority more comfortable.
If you have an older range and still have the military range cert. That should still be valid.
But mostly, the military JSP docs are considered the bible. They are sensible and well written, once you have gotten your head around them. And following them should put you in a good position.
They are written around the idea of a 'cone of fire'. Which is the angles that you will reasonably be expected to have a loaded gun pointed. This depends on the shooting stance (stood/prone/benchrest/wheelchair) type of firearm etc. And about the materials that the bullet will encounter on it's way to the backstop.
Anything outside of this cone of fire is just negligance. Loose a round off with the rifle up at 30degs and all bets are off.
I agree on the need for proper air extraction. Again, that will be covered in the JSP docs and asked about during an inspection, if you have one.
As will cleaning/maintainence routines.
But you will find that most lead dust will be generated by the backstop. If you stop the bullets by just smashing them against a steel plate, you will get lots of lead dust. Less in a sand trap, and it will be contained. Though you then have to think how you will deal with contaminated sand.
Rubber chip bullet catchers are the cleanest in this case.
Don't mix up HO approved club status and range inspection/certification.
The approved club scheme is down to the record keeping and oversight of membership. You need to be a member of an HO approved club if your FAC is conditioned for target use. But anyone can set up a target shooting club.
However, at a non approved club, you can only shoot your own guns. No sharing or club guns. As that relies on the section 15(1) exemption that only HO clubs can use. (Unless it is a 'minature rifle range', which are a special case, at the moment.)
How any range is deemed to be 'suitable for the safe use of that class of firearm', is a more wooly.
The actual range certification is done by the range operator. The NRA and NSRA will offer inspections and issue insopection reports. And those reports have no legal weight. This will be usually supplied after an inspection, but the sign off is left blank for the range operator to put their details.
Both organisations have global insurance policies in place which they will add affiliated organoisations to, under their rules. For NSRA they insist on there having been a range inspection (they will also accept ones done by the NRA) before adding you to their policy.
NRA do not require an inspection. You just apply (and pay) and you are insured.
However, if there were to be an incident, then the insurers will be looking for a way of passing the blame. And having the inspections should put you in a better position.
And of course, having bits of paper to wave tends to make people in authority more comfortable.
If you have an older range and still have the military range cert. That should still be valid.
But mostly, the military JSP docs are considered the bible. They are sensible and well written, once you have gotten your head around them. And following them should put you in a good position.
They are written around the idea of a 'cone of fire'. Which is the angles that you will reasonably be expected to have a loaded gun pointed. This depends on the shooting stance (stood/prone/benchrest/wheelchair) type of firearm etc. And about the materials that the bullet will encounter on it's way to the backstop.
Anything outside of this cone of fire is just negligance. Loose a round off with the rifle up at 30degs and all bets are off.
I agree on the need for proper air extraction. Again, that will be covered in the JSP docs and asked about during an inspection, if you have one.
As will cleaning/maintainence routines.
But you will find that most lead dust will be generated by the backstop. If you stop the bullets by just smashing them against a steel plate, you will get lots of lead dust. Less in a sand trap, and it will be contained. Though you then have to think how you will deal with contaminated sand.
Rubber chip bullet catchers are the cleanest in this case.
gonzo
Well-Known Member
Question, as I have never been involved with the HO club side of things.....
Is the range safety cert a requirement for HO approval.
And is the 5year reinspection a HO rule?
I would be surprised if they could insist on inspections. As there is no acreditation system and anyone can claim to be an inspector.
I found all those folk looking through the windows, put me off target when the Baker street tube went past.
BC.
You can have HO approval for a club and not have a club range, such clubs book mod ranges or Bisley for example.
The RSC pre date the changes in 2006.
Typical example of post 2006 range is at Garlands Shooting Ground.
There seems to be confusion. Range safety certificates are a notional term with no legal standing used by range "experts". Nothing more than a ruse to get clubs to part with money. What you are asking is for someone else to indemnify your potential liability. The only benefit of these "experts" is that some will pass a range safe that is not to JSP 403 so the club has then got NRA provided insurance (which is generally better than private). Downside is that you will be paying revisit fees every five years and a hefty capitation fee every year. For a medium size club that means around £1000 extra cost per year.
JSP 403 has many good points but it is deficient in some areas and basically relies on having extended real estate. For example at shorter distances ricochets are assumed not to be affected by gravity nor energy depletion due to losing stability. Angles chosen for ricochets are in parts unrealistic and impact areas bizarre. All ricochets happen around 20m from the firing point and at set angles. Those areas alone see back stops become mountains very quickly at short distances. Under JSP 403 stop butts could be 22m high and 40m wide with an angle of between 30 to 34 degrees. Also it must be 0-4mm concrete sand. Not saying it's not relevant it is very much so but the angle of the sand is based solely on its angle of repose. Same goes for cone of fire. That changes dependent on whether beginner or expert and then the safety margin of 4m or thereabouts seems plucked out of thin air.
Ask yourself how high would the backstop be when zeroing or shooting deer and what should it be made of.
JSP 403 has many good points but it is deficient in some areas and basically relies on having extended real estate. For example at shorter distances ricochets are assumed not to be affected by gravity nor energy depletion due to losing stability. Angles chosen for ricochets are in parts unrealistic and impact areas bizarre. All ricochets happen around 20m from the firing point and at set angles. Those areas alone see back stops become mountains very quickly at short distances. Under JSP 403 stop butts could be 22m high and 40m wide with an angle of between 30 to 34 degrees. Also it must be 0-4mm concrete sand. Not saying it's not relevant it is very much so but the angle of the sand is based solely on its angle of repose. Same goes for cone of fire. That changes dependent on whether beginner or expert and then the safety margin of 4m or thereabouts seems plucked out of thin air.
Ask yourself how high would the backstop be when zeroing or shooting deer and what should it be made of.
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