Clearing the air

R. Macleod & Son - The Best Hunting Companion
Tulloch

Tulloch

Well-Known Member
Trade Member
I think a little venting is in order,

I am not one to shy away from a good rant so bare with me as I am hoping as I am starting this thread that my rant will not take too long.

Over the years I have spent a lot of time watching this Forum and other social media platforms and almost daily there are people asking for shooting.

I know there is not a lot of land going about and what land there is can be costly to the average shooter.

Likewise I have been criticised publicly and behind closed doors for the amount of stalking I have for sale each year, frankly to be honest not my doing just the job I am tasked to do.

So because of the stalking I sell and the individuals who think it is wrong that we have so much ground that we Let it out, I try to equal the balance a little by offering shooting on my own grounds for free.

Recently I have noticed my posts being deleted on social media (NOT HERE) amongst some groups, when offering such free days, almost making it look like that the only posts I do are to sell syndicate places.

Recently however, I have managed to offer 3 or 4 free stalks with me throughout the year so I have posted them up and they have not been deleted, along with this I offered both on here and elsewhere the chance to do some foxing with me with the chance to take a couple of deer from time to time.

What has surprised me over these last months is the constant posts by people asking for stalking or places to shoot but NOONE and I mean NOONE has taken me up on any of the offers I have put up for some FREE shooting, what gives?

I am not a selfish person, I usually go a long way to help people out sacrificing my own time and money in the process and I am willing to do a favour for anyone, but these recent offers have got me thinking is it even worth offering at all ?

Really what gives, and if anybody has any insight into this then tell me why?

I understand regarding the foxing , I get it , the idea of shooting foxes and being out on the ground at night sounds exciting and lamping and driving around, I get it, I don't even ask people to open the gates for me anymore as I heard one complaint "the only reason he wants people along is so he has someone to open the gates" so after hearing that I don't even ask my lamping buddies to get the gates.

It has been hard work recently, I am not complaining but much of my grounds I have I never actually got for myself, but in a way I cannot complain that I have been left to do things on my own as I understand people have lives that do not include driving from farm to farm hoping to see signs of a fox. The other thing about foxing is that people see on social media the 100's of foxes that seem to be shot a night in the south of England where you are almost guaranteed to see one a night, the Highlands are not that exciting fox wise.

So I get the reason why noone wants to come foxing but the the free stalks, that is the one that baffled me the most.

I have actually stopped replying to people who are looking for shooting now, even when something is offered for free the people can be so difficult and fussy, everything has to be on someone elses terms, even when its free. By god get a grip, so I have stopped offering and I am no longer offering personal stalking from me where I take guests out on my own grounds.

I spent 2 days watching one of my stalk offers being ripped apart so I am just gonna keep all the deer on my own grounds to myself, apparently £80 for 4 hours stalking is "too cheap" and "there must be no deer" and various other comments, but one of the guys who commented was selling buck stalking for £200 a day with lots of hidden trophy fees etc. I never commented. God the amount of times I have to bite my tongue these days.

What I am gonna say is that, not all offers that seem good are bad specially the free ones. I am not a bad guy who is trying to rip anyone off or have any hidden agenda, I spend a lot of time giving people I don't know advice on various things from firearms, scopes to computers all of it I do for free with no return, I should charge for that but I wouldn't. As far as I am concerned £80 for a 4-5 hour stalk for the chance of a buck is not expensive when you take into account £30 for fuel, the cost of my time and the equipment I have, really works out for me to be around £5 per hour for my time in the end, which many wont even bother getting out of bed at 9am for nevermind 3am sometimes earlier.

Do me a favour if your thinking of putting a post or a thread up looking for shooting just decide whether you actually want shooting or not and before you start telling the world that you never get offered shooting and complaining about it just think whether you are willing to sacrifice your precious time to in fact go shooting and in the end do you really need a firearm or is it that you like the fact you you have a gun in your cabinet ???

rant over
 
Hell, just waiting for my FAC, soon as it arrives and the rifle is bought, I will tap you up for some free shooting!!!!!

Mike
 
Tulloch said:
I think a little venting is in order,

I am not one to shy away from a good rant so bare with me as I am hoping as I am starting this thread that my rant will not take too long.

Over the years I have spent a lot of time watching this Forum and other social media platforms and almost daily there are people asking for shooting.

I know there is not a lot of land going about and what land there is can be costly to the average shooter.

Likewise I have been criticised publicly and behind closed doors for the amount of stalking I have for sale each year, frankly to be honest not my doing just the job I am tasked to do.

So because of the stalking I sell and the individuals who think it is wrong that we have so much ground that we Let it out, I try to equal the balance a little by offering shooting on my own grounds for free.

Recently I have noticed my posts being deleted on social media (NOT HERE) amongst some groups, when offering such free days, almost making it look like that the only posts I do are to sell syndicate places.

Recently however, I have managed to offer 3 or 4 free stalks with me throughout the year so I have posted them up and they have not been deleted, along with this I offered both on here and elsewhere the chance to do some foxing with me with the chance to take a couple of deer from time to time.

What has surprised me over these last months is the constant posts by people asking for stalking or places to shoot but NOONE and I mean NOONE has taken me up on any of the offers I have put up for some FREE shooting, what gives?

I am not a selfish person, I usually go a long way to help people out sacrificing my own time and money in the process and I am willing to do a favour for anyone, but these recent offers have got me thinking is it even worth offering at all ?

Really what gives, and if anybody has any insight into this then tell me why?

I understand regarding the foxing , I get it , the idea of shooting foxes and being out on the ground at night sounds exciting and lamping and driving around, I get it, I don't even ask people to open the gates for me anymore as I heard one complaint "the only reason he wants people along is so he has someone to open the gates" so after hearing that I don't even ask my lamping buddies to get the gates.

It has been hard work recently, I am not complaining but much of my grounds I have I never actually got for myself, but in a way I cannot complain that I have been left to do things on my own as I understand people have lives that do not include driving from farm to farm hoping to see signs of a fox. The other thing about foxing is that people see on social media the 100's of foxes that seem to be shot a night in the south of England where you are almost guaranteed to see one a night, the Highlands are not that exciting fox wise.

So I get the reason why noone wants to come foxing but the the free stalks, that is the one that baffled me the most.

I have actually stopped replying to people who are looking for shooting now, even when something is offered for free the people can be so difficult and fussy, everything has to be on someone elses terms, even when its free. By god get a grip, so I have stopped offering and I am no longer offering personal stalking from me where I take guests out on my own grounds.

I spent 2 days watching one of my stalk offers being ripped apart so I am just gonna keep all the deer on my own grounds to myself, apparently £80 for 4 hours stalking is "too cheap" and "there must be no deer" and various other comments, but one of the guys who commented was selling buck stalking for £200 a day with lots of hidden trophy fees etc. I never commented. God the amount of times I have to bite my tongue these days.

What I am gonna say is that, not all offers that seem good are bad specially the free ones. I am not a bad guy who is trying to rip anyone off or have any hidden agenda, I spend a lot of time giving people I don't know advice on various things from firearms, scopes to computers all of it I do for free with no return, I should charge for that but I wouldn't. As far as I am concerned £80 for a 4-5 hour stalk for the chance of a buck is not expensive when you take into account £30 for fuel, the cost of my time and the equipment I have, really works out for me to be around £5 per hour for my time in the end, which many wont even bother getting out of bed at 9am for nevermind 3am sometimes earlier.

Do me a favour if your thinking of putting a post or a thread up looking for shooting just decide whether you actually want shooting or not and before you start telling the world that you never get offered shooting and complaining about it just think whether you are willing to sacrifice your precious time to in fact go shooting and in the end do you really need a firearm or is it that you like the fact you you have a gun in your cabinet ???

rant over
Click to expand...
Well said Tulloch, remember the latin, Nill Illigitum Carborundum.
 
Tulloch said:
I think a little venting is in order,

I am not one to shy away from a good rant so bare with me as I am hoping as I am starting this thread that my rant will not take too long.

Over the years I have spent a lot of time watching this Forum and other social media platforms and almost daily there are people asking for shooting.

I know there is not a lot of land going about and what land there is can be costly to the average shooter.

Likewise I have been criticised publicly and behind closed doors for the amount of stalking I have for sale each year, frankly to be honest not my doing just the job I am tasked to do.

So because of the stalking I sell and the individuals who think it is wrong that we have so much ground that we Let it out, I try to equal the balance a little by offering shooting on my own grounds for free.

Recently I have noticed my posts being deleted on social media (NOT HERE) amongst some groups, when offering such free days, almost making it look like that the only posts I do are to sell syndicate places.

Recently however, I have managed to offer 3 or 4 free stalks with me throughout the year so I have posted them up and they have not been deleted, along with this I offered both on here and elsewhere the chance to do some foxing with me with the chance to take a couple of deer from time to time.

What has surprised me over these last months is the constant posts by people asking for stalking or places to shoot but NOONE and I mean NOONE has taken me up on any of the offers I have put up for some FREE shooting, what gives?

I am not a selfish person, I usually go a long way to help people out sacrificing my own time and money in the process and I am willing to do a favour for anyone, but these recent offers have got me thinking is it even worth offering at all ?

Really what gives, and if anybody has any insight into this then tell me why?

I understand regarding the foxing , I get it , the idea of shooting foxes and being out on the ground at night sounds exciting and lamping and driving around, I get it, I don't even ask people to open the gates for me anymore as I heard one complaint "the only reason he wants people along is so he has someone to open the gates" so after hearing that I don't even ask my lamping buddies to get the gates.

It has been hard work recently, I am not complaining but much of my grounds I have I never actually got for myself, but in a way I cannot complain that I have been left to do things on my own as I understand people have lives that do not include driving from farm to farm hoping to see signs of a fox. The other thing about foxing is that people see on social media the 100's of foxes that seem to be shot a night in the south of England where you are almost guaranteed to see one a night, the Highlands are not that exciting fox wise.

So I get the reason why noone wants to come foxing but the the free stalks, that is the one that baffled me the most.

I have actually stopped replying to people who are looking for shooting now, even when something is offered for free the people can be so difficult and fussy, everything has to be on someone elses terms, even when its free. By god get a grip, so I have stopped offering and I am no longer offering personal stalking from me where I take guests out on my own grounds.

I spent 2 days watching one of my stalk offers being ripped apart so I am just gonna keep all the deer on my own grounds to myself, apparently £80 for 4 hours stalking is "too cheap" and "there must be no deer" and various other comments, but one of the guys who commented was selling buck stalking for £200 a day with lots of hidden trophy fees etc. I never commented. God the amount of times I have to bite my tongue these days.

What I am gonna say is that, not all offers that seem good are bad specially the free ones. I am not a bad guy who is trying to rip anyone off or have any hidden agenda, I spend a lot of time giving people I don't know advice on various things from firearms, scopes to computers all of it I do for free with no return, I should charge for that but I wouldn't. As far as I am concerned £80 for a 4-5 hour stalk for the chance of a buck is not expensive when you take into account £30 for fuel, the cost of my time and the equipment I have, really works out for me to be around £5 per hour for my time in the end, which many wont even bother getting out of bed at 9am for nevermind 3am sometimes earlier.

Do me a favour if your thinking of putting a post or a thread up looking for shooting just decide whether you actually want shooting or not and before you start telling the world that you never get offered shooting and complaining about it just think whether you are willing to sacrifice your precious time to in fact go shooting and in the end do you really need a firearm or is it that you like the fact you you have a gun in your cabinet ???

rant over
Click to expand...

An understandable rant Tulloch, it may be that most think that something for free must have strings attached which is understandable I suppose. Your charge of £80 a stalk is I would suggest about right and as you say you don't get rich off that and as you are trade you will always deal with a wide range of characters in stalking and plenty who are never happy whatever they get. May I suggest you try auctioning you free stalks with the proceeds going to your favorite charity at least if you get an ar***ole to take out you can can console yourself that your favorite charity benefits.
 
David,

I do wonder whether some people just don't value things when they are 'free'. I also think there are some people whose parents failed to school them in good manners.

I gave away a shotgun on here to a guy's daughters. The member promised to PM me and collect it by the end of the month. He didn't bother to collect it or to message me to say that he no longer wanted it. Just silence. Rude and ignorant. I won't make that mistake again.

I gave a free cull hunt in Mozambique away to a charity auction (not on here). It was a nightmare. The guys were more demanding and 'entitled' than most of our fee-paying clients would ever dream of being. I won't make that mistake again either.

I see generous threads on here (like yours) offering free stalking or foxing or rabitting or whatever and the responses are generally along the lines of "I'd be happy to help you out", as though it were the respondent rather than the offeror doing the favour. I definitely don't intend to make that mistake.

So now, for me, I shall just ensure that my friends get looked after well and leave the kindness of strangers to others.

One exception: I was quite moved by @Colonel 's scheme, where he takes a current or recently demobbed member of the armed forces stalking/hunting each year. I would be willing to contribute to such an organised scheme. It should include the rozzers too.

Anyway, you've made me feel better, if nothing else!

Take care. I'm heading up the road tomorrow morning, hopefully in time for a quick cuppa with @Tam the Gun in Inverness before continuing north into bandit country.

V best,

Carl
 
jer said:
An understandable rant Tulloch, it may be that most think that something for free must have strings attached which is understandable I suppose. Your charge of £80 a stalk is I would suggest about right and as you say you don't get rich off that and as you are trade you will always deal with a wide range of characters in stalking and plenty who are never happy whatever they get. May I suggest you try auctioning you free stalks with the proceeds going to your favorite charity at least if you get an ar***ole to take out you can can console yourself that your favorite charity benefits.
Click to expand...
Tried that ,

I tried raising money for SNAP , Special Needs After- School Program which the Highland council have dropped funding for and it was not taken up .
 
CarlW said:
David,

I do wonder whether some people just don't value things when they are 'free'. I also think there are some people whose parents failed to school them in good manners.

I gave away a shotgun on here to a guy's daughters. The member promised to PM me and collect it by the end of the month. He didn't bother to collect it or to message me to say that he no longer wanted it. Just silence. Rude and ignorant. I won't make that mistake again.

I gave a free cull hunt in Mozambique away to a charity auction (not on here). It was a nightmare. The guys were more demanding and 'entitled' than most of our fee-paying clients would ever dream of being. I won't make that mistake again either.

I see generous threads on here (like yours) offering free stalking or foxing or rabitting or whatever and the responses are generally along the lines of "I'd be happy to help you out", as though it were the respondent rather than the offeror doing the favour. I definitely don't intend to make that mistake.

So now, for me, I shall just ensure that my friends get looked after well and leave the kindness of strangers to others.

One exception: I was quite moved by @Colonel 's scheme, where he takes a current or recently demobbed member of the armed forces stalking/hunting each year. I would be willing to contribute to such an organised scheme. It should include the rozzers too.

Anyway, you've made me feel better, if nothing else!

Take care. I'm heading up the road tomorrow morning, hopefully in time for a quick cuppa with @Tam the Gun in Inverness before continuing north into bandit country.

V best,

Carl
Click to expand...
Safe trip up mate :) catch up soon though,
 
Tulloch said:
I think a little venting is in order,

I am not one to shy away from a good rant so bare with me as I am hoping as I am starting this thread that my rant will not take too long.

Over the years I have spent a lot of time watching this Forum and other social media platforms and almost daily there are people asking for shooting.

I know there is not a lot of land going about and what land there is can be costly to the average shooter.

Likewise I have been criticised publicly and behind closed doors for the amount of stalking I have for sale each year, frankly to be honest not my doing just the job I am tasked to do.

So because of the stalking I sell and the individuals who think it is wrong that we have so much ground that we Let it out, I try to equal the balance a little by offering shooting on my own grounds for free.

Recently I have noticed my posts being deleted on social media (NOT HERE) amongst some groups, when offering such free days, almost making it look like that the only posts I do are to sell syndicate places.

Recently however, I have managed to offer 3 or 4 free stalks with me throughout the year so I have posted them up and they have not been deleted, along with this I offered both on here and elsewhere the chance to do some foxing with me with the chance to take a couple of deer from time to time.

What has surprised me over these last months is the constant posts by people asking for stalking or places to shoot but NOONE and I mean NOONE has taken me up on any of the offers I have put up for some FREE shooting, what gives?

I am not a selfish person, I usually go a long way to help people out sacrificing my own time and money in the process and I am willing to do a favour for anyone, but these recent offers have got me thinking is it even worth offering at all ?

Really what gives, and if anybody has any insight into this then tell me why?

I understand regarding the foxing , I get it , the idea of shooting foxes and being out on the ground at night sounds exciting and lamping and driving around, I get it, I don't even ask people to open the gates for me anymore as I heard one complaint "the only reason he wants people along is so he has someone to open the gates" so after hearing that I don't even ask my lamping buddies to get the gates.

It has been hard work recently, I am not complaining but much of my grounds I have I never actually got for myself, but in a way I cannot complain that I have been left to do things on my own as I understand people have lives that do not include driving from farm to farm hoping to see signs of a fox. The other thing about foxing is that people see on social media the 100's of foxes that seem to be shot a night in the south of England where you are almost guaranteed to see one a night, the Highlands are not that exciting fox wise.

So I get the reason why noone wants to come foxing but the the free stalks, that is the one that baffled me the most.

I have actually stopped replying to people who are looking for shooting now, even when something is offered for free the people can be so difficult and fussy, everything has to be on someone elses terms, even when its free. By god get a grip, so I have stopped offering and I am no longer offering personal stalking from me where I take guests out on my own grounds.

I spent 2 days watching one of my stalk offers being ripped apart so I am just gonna keep all the deer on my own grounds to myself, apparently £80 for 4 hours stalking is "too cheap" and "there must be no deer" and various other comments, but one of the guys who commented was selling buck stalking for £200 a day with lots of hidden trophy fees etc. I never commented. God the amount of times I have to bite my tongue these days.

What I am gonna say is that, not all offers that seem good are bad specially the free ones. I am not a bad guy who is trying to rip anyone off or have any hidden agenda, I spend a lot of time giving people I don't know advice on various things from firearms, scopes to computers all of it I do for free with no return, I should charge for that but I wouldn't. As far as I am concerned £80 for a 4-5 hour stalk for the chance of a buck is not expensive when you take into account £30 for fuel, the cost of my time and the equipment I have, really works out for me to be around £5 per hour for my time in the end, which many wont even bother getting out of bed at 9am for nevermind 3am sometimes earlier.

Do me a favour if your thinking of putting a post or a thread up looking for shooting just decide whether you actually want shooting or not and before you start telling the world that you never get offered shooting and complaining about it just think whether you are willing to sacrifice your precious time to in fact go shooting and in the end do you really need a firearm or is it that you like the fact you you have a gun in your cabinet ???

rant over
Click to expand...
 
Great post/rant I’d gladly pay £80 for an outing! Free even better lol for me it’s not about trophies! More about learning from others that have more experience!
 
Tulloch said:
Tried that ,

I tried raising money for SNAP , Special Needs After- School Program which the Highland council have dropped funding for and it was not taken up .
Click to expand...


Ha!

Wife is head of school PTA ... got involved as both our boys in main stream school with additional support .... Autism !
And she threw herself into it to build relationship with school and to get best for our boys ....

See trying to get majority of parents involved or help with end result being to benefit their kids ! And will do f&@k all to help .... but be the first to moan about lack of support or this or that !😡

Boils my pish !

Paul
 
It does you credit that you keep offering to help people out, and it would be a shame if you stopped doing so, because there are those who appreciate it. Certainly I have benefited hugely from generous people like you inviting me when they know that I can't offer any stalking in return, and I've had to turn down offers simply because timings or locations didn't work. But I try and make it clear that I'm very grateful for the offers just the same! On the other hand, I'm clear that none of these kind people owes me anything at all and if I'm a guest, than I want to be a good, polite guest who is reinvited! But if I'm not a paying client, it's no more acceptable to complain that there aren't enough deer, or that they're not big enough, or that the sun's not shining enough than it is to go to dinner at someone's house and try and order as if it were a restaurant.

So anyway, there are those who appreciate it, and it would be a terrible shame if those who don't put you off being one of the good guys.
 
I look on enviously at the ground and opportunities you offer. Were I not so far away and busy with work and two young daughters I’d been biting your hand off for the stalking you’ve been offering. I hope you’re still around in coming years when I might have more time!
 
I have always done my best to pass on my good fortune in having land to shoot. The free days I have offered have generally been received by very grateful stalkers. I have also sold some days out in an attempt to raise funds for the syndicate, and again they have for the most part been gratefully received. It felt stressful when people were paying as I so wanted them to get a deer. One such patron had a few opportunities but didnt get on one. He booked again and managed one second time around within a couple of hours of arrivle which was fantastic. When I take people out its genuinely ALL day so can be 12hour + stalking with a break for lunch. Its a 130mile round trip for me and working all day, but still I feel the pressure of trying to get them on something.

Truth is proper stalkers know the score. One of my members went out six times on the bounce and got nothing, but his last four outings he shot four deer on a ground hed slagged off earlier in the seasion for being destroyed by forestry work. No deer, no fresh slots he said. I dont think the deer will be back????

Problem is this is deer stalking and on land like we have in Sussex you can see 50 deer one day, then absolutely nothing next time out. Our average is one in four stalks. Hard to explain that to the poor sods who did three stalks and got nothing.

I suffered from the pressure of taking paying people out and them not getting one, I cant imagine how id feel if the went out three times and still got nothing :(

My good friend, stalking syndicate co runner and all round voice of reason Steve, keeps telling me what I am offering is dirt cheep and I recite this mantra when worrying about it, but at the end of the day hes right a fee for the day no kill fee no meet fee no missed shot fee is a great offer and if people cant appreciate that, then good luck finding better value pro stalking


So my 2p is keep on offering and if people cant appreciate what a good deel they are getting, screw them, they will learn in time what the real world is all about.

I shall off course be repeating this to myself next time I am gaging for a deer to show up on a paid day :D
 
Reference deerstalking costs and availability, there is an interesting article about deer cost et al in this weeks Country Mans Weekly.
RS
 
Its not just you and its not just stalking. In various walks of life people don't seem to value things that are free (to them !) or are genuine value for money. Businesses charge for seminars that they would gladly do for free but people are not committed to turning up so they charge them a fee and they get a higher turn out. You invite people to corporate entertainment and they will happily cancel on the day but expect to be invited the next time.

If you make a product don't sell it at a low price as people will perceive it as second tier, I know people that have sold more when they put the price up.

The first one is just pig ignorant the second there is at least a bit of psychology going on.

I have had enough of it in all walks. If people are keen enough to get off their ass on their own and do it or nag me to do it, I will help them and encourage them a lot. If its just hot air, forget it I am not here to take responsibility for their lives.

Plenty people have helped me and while I probably can't always help them in return, I can help others in the same way. Seems to me that's how it works
 
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