Copper bullets.

[Paul 600]

Griff,

best practice is only a guide line! Both you and i know what goes on in the real world! However as with all BP, AFAGS etc if there was an accident and the following investigation found you not to have been within BP guidelines then some pencil pusher would have a field day!

its up to every individual to apply safe shooting and I hope we all will never have a drama!

 

[User00023]

All I have pointed out is the problems that will arise if this legislation goes through..

What legislation? There's nothing on the cards as far as I'm aware, or have I missed something?

 

[griff]

Irwch,
There is a push on to ban lead bullets!
Someone from the WWT has bought 26 carcasses from dealers allround the country and had them Xrayed, the results show considerable comtamination from lead and copper shards upto 45cm from the point of impact.
The argument is that if you are pregnant and eat venison it will harm your unborn child.
The RSPB have also jumped on this band wagon and at present there is a consultation going on as to the health welfares of using lead/copper bullets.
If they find in favour of the WWT then lead will go! It is already banned in some US states, it is only a matter of time.

If its good enough for the government to issue warnings not to eat shellfish when your pregnant then surely a similar warning regarding venison would suffice..

But you kn ow what these lying, cheating scumbag MP's are like.


regards
griff

 

[finnbear270]

mono metal bullets

So all we are waiting for is the formal complaint paperwork from the Taleban man about the lead in the messengers that should make it a full house for the anti's :!:

 

[User00023]

Since we're on the matter of lead toxicity -

"On the 10th July 1848, 'Batty’s Menagerie' visited Tregaron. One of the elephants quenched its thirst at Bronmwyn*, which proved fatal owing to lead poisoning. It died in the Ivy Bush stable. Its burying place was in the field at the rear of the Talbot Hotel.”

I don't usually associate an elephant's death with lead in that context. Come to think of it, I don't usually associate elephants with Tregaron either, whatever the context.

I wonder what the WWT would have said about that!


*Bronmwyn was a local lead mine

 

[Stand Buck]

Irwch,
There is a push on to ban lead bullets!
Someone from the WWT has bought 26 carcasses from dealers allround the country and had them Xrayed, the results show considerable comtamination from lead and copper shards upto 45cm from the point of impact.
The argument is that if you are pregnant and eat venison it will harm your unborn child.
The RSPB have also jumped on this band wagon and at present there is a consultation going on as to the health welfares of using lead/copper bullets.
If they find in favour of the WWT then lead will go! It is already banned in some US states, it is only a matter of time.

If its good enough for the government to issue warnings not to eat shellfish when your pregnant then surely a similar warning regarding venison would suffice..

But you kn ow what these lying, cheating scumbag MP's are like.


regards
griff

The RSPB trialed some monometal bullets on one of thier sites last season.

The trial was to last all season however it was abandonded after the first month due to the poor performance of the bullets causing concerns over deer welfare and recovery.

The performance was very poor with the deer running several times the distance of that covered when compared to when soft points were used.

 

[User00023]

Standbuck & Griff.

Is there any documentary evidence of these claims or are they anecdotal? I trust we are all committed to the rational approach in seeking answers to our questions so it would be useful if you could provide links or references to the WWT and RSPB evidence.

Judging from your posts it would appear that the RSPB oppose cuprics on welfare grounds while the WWT oppose lead on the grounds of food safety. Neither appear to oppose the shooting of deer per se.

From my own experience I find the observations attributed to the RSPB highly supect. I have accounted for over a hundred deer with the Barnes TSX and can think of no instance where one ran any further than it might had I been using lead rounds. Seems to me we should be querying their choice of marksman if they were concerned about inhumane shots. Might I suggest this as a prime example of a poor workman blaming his tools.

 

[User00023]

No published evidence forthcoming?

Be sure that anyone who would wish to make a concerted effort against shooting will do so certain in the knowledge that their evidence will bear scrutiny. Our defence will need to rest on more than anecdote and the ramblings of a bloke down the pub.

 

[Jagare]

A couple of years ago the goverment here in Sweden put forward a total ban on all lead in ammo, shot and bullets.
There was extensive research done into the effectivness of monolithic
bullets. They were shown to be no where as effective as lead bullets causeing more wounding and real risk of ricochet.
These were not rumours from a man down the pub but research done by jägareförbundet and others . Mono bullets don't shoot well out of clalibres smaller than 7mm.
The lead ban was put on hold till a suitable alternative material could be found for bullet makeing.

 

[User00023]

Thanks Jagare.

Do you know whether this research was published on the web? Failing that, is it available in document form anywhere?

 

[Jagare]

look at http://www.naturvardsverket.se/Documents/publikationer/620-5627-1.pdf several pages in English setting out there origanal proposal and some of the drawbacks. Most of the 70+ pages are in Swedish so i won't translate. You can Google, Bly forbjud i ammunition. Most is in Swedish but you may find something in English. Have got rid of the magasines with the articles in as this was about 2 years ago

 

[User00023]

Tak, Jagare.

Diolch yn fawr iawn.

 

[Jagare]

Have a look at this web page. íf you can Google it you will be able to get a translation in English http://webnews.textalk.com/se/article_print.php?id=359390

 

[User00023]

Yet again Jagare, I am grateful.

With regard to the nature of the ground over which one is shooting all I can say is yes, the potential for ricochet is possibly one of the least well observed pre-shot checks by the average hunter. I once found myself dangerously close to the post target trajectory of a low velocity .22rf lead bullet, where the round virtually followed its initial flight right back to the rifle. How many of us as youngsters took an ill advised shot with an air gun, only to find the pellet whizzing back from whence it came? The frangibility of a bullet clearly plays and important part in reducing such risks but even a round which has lost 50% of its original mass is still carrying a lot of energy once it passes through its target, regardless of its composition.

In response to Christer Holmgren's pictorial reference to tissue damage I would offer one of my own examples; a roe buck shot from 70 yards with a Barnes TSX in .308 which produced a copious blood trail, the animal running on no further than 25 yards. Note the extensive injury to the aorta and vena cava as well as that to the lung. Such results are not unusual, they are what I have come to expect from the round, irrespective of species.

 

[Bavarianbrit]

Monolithic projectiles

Hi,

The Brandenburg forestry department in the last year have banned the use of them due to accidents from richochets coming off frozen trees.

Regards

Bavarianbrit