I have some sympathy for the officers involved. They have to drop the animal with a head shot as a running beast, even if it only goes 50 yards is a public risk. We know from many SD posts how contentious head shots in deer are - and how difficult they are. srvet and I have discussed these incidents and we feel one of the problems may be the relative landmarks when a cow has its head in different positions. Whilst a younger vet I once missed the vital spot with a 12bore from a few inches. The cow just stood there. So I can understand how this happens (even ignoring Daily Mail sensationalism). If there are serving officers on the site who feel some vet based information would be helpful, I'd be happy to speak to them.
Cow shooting!
- Thread starter Munty_Hunter
- Start date
Tamus
Well-Known Member
I knew a policeman (he's retired now) who had the ambtion to become a member of an armed response team. While he was in the early stages of selection I asked him why he wanted to kill people... He seemed fairly shocked by my question, shortly after that he joined a different special unit, diving, instead.
For most people, shooting at targets is an entirely matter from extinguishing life (as well it ought to be). I'm not sure that either the selection process or the training fully overcomes the difficulties and stresses that arise in most people when first confronted with having to complete the latter task.
I might also say, I have noticed that his task seems to be particularly likely to engender "odd" reactions in those people who have not been brought up surrounded, from an early age, by the realities of birth, life and death in all it's gory detail, like wot country kids all tended to be when (and where) I was a lad.
For most people, shooting at targets is an entirely matter from extinguishing life (as well it ought to be). I'm not sure that either the selection process or the training fully overcomes the difficulties and stresses that arise in most people when first confronted with having to complete the latter task.
I might also say, I have noticed that his task seems to be particularly likely to engender "odd" reactions in those people who have not been brought up surrounded, from an early age, by the realities of birth, life and death in all it's gory detail, like wot country kids all tended to be when (and where) I was a lad.
Salmo Salar
Well-Known Member
I have witnessed a 7.62 fmj from 20yds straight between the eyes of a bull, and it just shook its head, a wee bit of blood at its nostrils but that was it. The lad that took the shot was in shock and handed me the rifle, I then shot it with a quartering shot behind the ear where it then fell on the spot. I too was a bit shocked at the outcome of the first shot.
As for the other lad, all he'd shot previous were paper targets and he never wanted to shoot anything other than that after that incident. If the bill had dropped to his shot he may have went on to shoot/stalk animals, who knows....
All I know is that there is no certainty.....
As for the other lad, all he'd shot previous were paper targets and he never wanted to shoot anything other than that after that incident. If the bill had dropped to his shot he may have went on to shoot/stalk animals, who knows....
All I know is that there is no certainty.....
Tamus
Well-Known Member
"Between the eyes" is an easy mistake to make... That shot will just enter the sinuses and may or may not get lucky and clip the spine.
The "X" mark is the intersection of the two lines drawn between each eye and its opposite ear, ie. imagine a line drawn from the centre of the right eye to the middle of the base of the left ear and then the corresponding opposite line drawn from the centre of the left eye to the middle of the base of the right ear... where those two lines cross (about half way up the forehead... that's the "sweet" spot on an animal staring straight at you... which is the other part of the equation... you want it staring straight at you... this does not allow for much error or time (with an enraged animal)... big baws required.
The "X" mark is the intersection of the two lines drawn between each eye and its opposite ear, ie. imagine a line drawn from the centre of the right eye to the middle of the base of the left ear and then the corresponding opposite line drawn from the centre of the left eye to the middle of the base of the right ear... where those two lines cross (about half way up the forehead... that's the "sweet" spot on an animal staring straight at you... which is the other part of the equation... you want it staring straight at you... this does not allow for much error or time (with an enraged animal)... big baws required.
bewsher500
Well-Known Member
too low.
the blood immediately in its nostrils is a dead give away
If the bull has its head angled slightly down or you are shooiting at a slight down angle it makes it even worse
too low and you just bury the bullet in sinus without hitting anything major vessel or nervous system.
Head shots are only contentious in deer as we tend to be shooting at distance and on the whole deer are a smaller target the cows.
Add that to the fact that some sportsman are not as accurate in the field as they would wish (or can demonstrate from a bench and poor knowledge of anatomy and you have deer with missing jaws and ears.
..too slow
Last edited:
Tamus
Well-Known Member
too low.
the blood immediately in its nostrils is a dead give away
If the bull has its head angled slightly down or you are shooiting at a slight down angle it makes it even worse
too low and you just bury the bullet in sinus without hitting anything major vessel or nervous system.
Head shots are only contentious in deer as we tend to be shooting at distance and on the whole deer are a smaller target the cows.
Add that to the fact that some sportsman are not as accurate in the field as they would wish (or can demonstrate from a bench and poor knowledge of anatomy and you have deer with missing jaws and ears.
..too slow
Interesting diagram Ed. Of course that will work perfectly for you, you're so damned tall...
Shorties like me can't be sure to get the "downhill" shot on a mature animal so my description of the sweet spot works for me... I know cos I've done it... Having said that, an inch or two north of my "X" mark works fine too... where inch or two south... would probably fail...
As well as impact point and angle, the shooter also has to consider proximity, in a really close shot the bullet tends to still be flying below line of sight etc, etc...
I guess this seems like an awful lot to consider if you've never even killed anything before... s'nae bother once you get the hang of it though... Luckily, for me, I "got the hang of it" long before being confronted by a raging escaped and injured bull... still, if you're a bit of a thrill seeker it beats knitting, hands down.
al4x1
Well-Known Member
Ok have a look on fieldsports Britain for Simon Barr shooting a wild red stag in a deer park, someone who knew what they were doing appropriate caliber and it all going pear shaped, no sign of a prosecution. It can happen in this case only those present will know the truth, they aren't experienced slaughtermen the animal wasn't close enough for normal techniques and the adrenalin was up. Who knows how long it stood still for or whether there was anywhere to coral it what you can say is it was dealt with.
About ten years ago, I got talked into putting a perfectly healthy cow down for Defra, just because it didn't have a 'passport'. Not one of my proudest moments. Older and wiser now, I wouldn't do it for just some beauracratic reason....
All I had then was a 22LR. The cow was in a dark shed, so a laser sight would have been more useful. Had trouble seeing the cross hairs against the animal's head, and focussing at just 40 feet.
Anyway, found the sweet spot ( as shown in the diagram a few posts previous ) with my first shot, and the beast went straight down. Can't remember for sure, but I think I might have walked up with a second shot, just to make certain.
Chris
All I had then was a 22LR. The cow was in a dark shed, so a laser sight would have been more useful. Had trouble seeing the cross hairs against the animal's head, and focussing at just 40 feet.
Anyway, found the sweet spot ( as shown in the diagram a few posts previous ) with my first shot, and the beast went straight down. Can't remember for sure, but I think I might have walked up with a second shot, just to make certain.
Chris
Earlier this week I was talking to the stockman on one of my permissions and we were standing next to a bull pen which contained a 2yr old fresian bull weighing between 800-900 KGs, he was soon to be off to see his maker. Close up (2 ft) was a massive muscular beast, huge head and in my view .243 might have been inadequate. He was pretty placid so gods knows what an angry one would be like to shoot.
Not something I would want to do in any situation. .223 would seem rather inadequate.
D
Not something I would want to do in any situation. .223 would seem rather inadequate.
D
The tramp
Well-Known Member
Just a quick point, on horses, draw the cross, and aim an inch higher, a horse has a surprisingly small brain and is higher than a cows.too low.
the blood immediately in its nostrils is a dead give away
If the bull has its head angled slightly down or you are shooiting at a slight down angle it makes it even worse
too low and you just bury the bullet in sinus without hitting anything major vessel or nervous system.
Head shots are only contentious in deer as we tend to be shooting at distance and on the whole deer are a smaller target the cows.
Add that to the fact that some sportsman are not as accurate in the field as they would wish (or can demonstrate from a bench and poor knowledge of anatomy and you have deer with missing jaws and ears.
..too slow
Regards
Pete
tackb
Well-Known Member
horses brains are nearly as small as my stupid horsey ex wifes!
Tamus
Well-Known Member
Yeah! ... but they do tend to have nice legs, don't they?
tackb
Well-Known Member
yes and i wish she'd used them to feck off a lot sooner!
kev.rem700
Well-Known Member
Cracking lol
bewsher500
Well-Known Member
not aware of any change in location
If anything the horse brain is more vertical than the cows' and sits a tad lower at the base
large bovine/bloodstock has always been ears/eyes cross
smaller ovine/porcine quarry is easier to move above and shoot down through whilst either straddling or in a crush
Miroku6000
Well-Known Member
This took place on land rented by a syndicate I am in! Caused a days shooting to be cancelled. Apparently they couldn't even hit it with the first few shots and then managed to smash its leg before they moved in closer! Complete bunch of amatuers. Having said that I have heard they only get a couple of hundred rounds a year to practice with.
Scott Country
Well-Known Member
Local agricultural casualty company here are licensed to use Brenneke slugs in shotgun for putting down dangerous bulls etc.
I certainally wouldnt want to get close to an annoyed bull with a captive bolt gun, so I guess a brenneke would make perfect sense in the hands of someone who is trained to use it properly....
I certainally wouldnt want to get close to an annoyed bull with a captive bolt gun, so I guess a brenneke would make perfect sense in the hands of someone who is trained to use it properly....
The Surveyor
Member
Very interesting anatomy review here, I thiknk it is something that we could all benefit from. have you any more like this that we could link to through the site?
Cheers
Cheers
Similar threads
