east sussex
Well-Known Member
opinel no10 cheap as chips and goes in your pocket
Decent Knife
- Thread starter smokey
- Start date
Whatever knives you buy and use, the most important thing is understanding the basics of what bevels and geometry are, how that applies to the type of grind your knife has and how best to sharpen it.
I have seen so many knives over the years which have been butchered badly by people sharpening them incorrectly. Technique is sometimes to blame but often it is because they are not even attempting to sharpen the right part of the knife. This results in changing the intended geometry of the blade which not only alters how it performs but ends up with an edge that then needs a ton of work to correct the error and bring it back to the original design. Correcting a poorly or badly butchered knife means removing a crap ton of metal to realign the bevels so they apex to the intended edge once more. Heavy corrections mean lots of work on stones, paper or ceramic which is boring and also wastes abrasives as you will damage whatever sharpening abrasive you use more quickly when having to spend lots of time removing material from the steel.
Scandinavian grind knives (like Moras) are where I see most of the issue in terms of what parts of the blade needs attention. The irony being that they are the easiest of all knifes to sharpen if done correctly.
At the risk of teaching a good many to suck eggs, if this helps even the odd Mora owner realise a proper edge, then it is worth posting the following:
Below is a picture of a knife that has a type of V or flat grind. Basically the main body of the blade tapers down towards the sharp end with the very business end of the knife that does the cutting having very small bevels, one either side of the blade. These bevels need to be in contact with the stone/abrasive with just enough metal being removed to bring the two sides together to form a perfect apex which results in your cutting edge. These knives are easy to sharpen in terms of removing metal quickly because such a small area of the knife is in contact with the stone/abrasive but at the same time, any errors can happen quickly due to this. It is harder to keep the knife at the exact angle on the stone, with each change in angle on every sharpening stroke inducing more potential error.
You can see the tiny bevel on this knife. It is the shiny bit that is about 1mm wide along the edge of the blade.
Next knife is a scandi grind (a Mora in this instance) which has huge bevels in comparison to the previous knife. About 10mm and very obvious to the eye. This Mora has seen a good amount of use with the main body of carbon steel being a bit battered with heavy patina. The bevels however are shiny in exactly the same way as the tiny bevels on the previous knife are shiny. That is because this entire surface area needs to be in contact with the stone/abrasive when sharpening is undertaken. The same concept applies. You remove enough material from the entire surface area of both bevels until the edges are brought together to form the perfect apex. Think of it like a roof. Those shiny bits are where the tiles are and you sharpen (remove material) the tiles until the roof has a perfect ridge. At that point, your edge is formed. This edge can be refined by using finer and finer abrasives once the initial edge has been realised but is not needed for most applications.
Moras are easy to sharpen due to the large surface area of their bevels. It is very intuitive to hold this angle on your stone/abrasive because you can easily see and feel it beneath your fingers.
If you hold the knife flat to your stone/abrasive on the main body of the knife, it will look like this whereby you can see a gap between the stone and the cutting edge of the knife
You want to tilt the blade until the full surface area of the bevel (the shiny bits on the pictures above) sits flush on the stone. It will then look like this with no gap being visible between the cutting edge and the stone. If your knife has been sharpened poorly in the past, there might be the smallest gap here, as you have in effect ground away at the wrong part of the blade and created extra bevels at the very cutting edge of the blade. I have seen this loads with folks using pull through sharpeners or trying to sharpen a scandi grind in the same way as a flat grind. To correct this, you will need to remove a crap ton of material from the bevels until the geometry corrects to the original design.
What is the best way to sharpen a Mora? In my view, it is using either wet n dry paper on a flat piece of granite or a very hard stone like a diamond stone. The issue with sharpening Moras, especially if you are correcting previous damage due to incorrect sharpening is that you can dish and damage soft whetstones quite easily due to how much material needs removing. If you dish (put a concave shape in to the stone surface) your stone, it then makes sharpening correctly nigh on impossible. The stone needs flattening lots and you plough through them quickly resulting in replacements being needed more often than is necessary.
Moras tend to come from the factory not particularly sharp in my view. They have a workable edge but you can attain a much much more refined edge that will be dangerously sharp. They are not really a grind type that I personally like for cutting in to animals. They are a grunt blade, good for cutting in to wood and such and probably why lots of bush craft folk use them. I see it as a beater utility knife. Useful but not a slicing tool for intricate cutting work on flesh, skin etc. V grinds are better for that but are certainly harder to keep properly sharpened. They do tend to retain a better edge in my view though. Scandis can be very sharp and then the edge can just drop off the cliff and become very poor at slicing quickly.
I would encourage anyone to get a Mora or a cheap scandi grind to practice sharpening on. They are easy and promote good awareness and technique in terms of what sharpening actually is.
Once your knife is sharp, keep it sharp using a leather strop coated in compound like green dialux. That will increase the length of time between needing lengthy and boring sessions on the stones.
I have seen so many knives over the years which have been butchered badly by people sharpening them incorrectly. Technique is sometimes to blame but often it is because they are not even attempting to sharpen the right part of the knife. This results in changing the intended geometry of the blade which not only alters how it performs but ends up with an edge that then needs a ton of work to correct the error and bring it back to the original design. Correcting a poorly or badly butchered knife means removing a crap ton of metal to realign the bevels so they apex to the intended edge once more. Heavy corrections mean lots of work on stones, paper or ceramic which is boring and also wastes abrasives as you will damage whatever sharpening abrasive you use more quickly when having to spend lots of time removing material from the steel.
Scandinavian grind knives (like Moras) are where I see most of the issue in terms of what parts of the blade needs attention. The irony being that they are the easiest of all knifes to sharpen if done correctly.
At the risk of teaching a good many to suck eggs, if this helps even the odd Mora owner realise a proper edge, then it is worth posting the following:
Below is a picture of a knife that has a type of V or flat grind. Basically the main body of the blade tapers down towards the sharp end with the very business end of the knife that does the cutting having very small bevels, one either side of the blade. These bevels need to be in contact with the stone/abrasive with just enough metal being removed to bring the two sides together to form a perfect apex which results in your cutting edge. These knives are easy to sharpen in terms of removing metal quickly because such a small area of the knife is in contact with the stone/abrasive but at the same time, any errors can happen quickly due to this. It is harder to keep the knife at the exact angle on the stone, with each change in angle on every sharpening stroke inducing more potential error.
You can see the tiny bevel on this knife. It is the shiny bit that is about 1mm wide along the edge of the blade.
Next knife is a scandi grind (a Mora in this instance) which has huge bevels in comparison to the previous knife. About 10mm and very obvious to the eye. This Mora has seen a good amount of use with the main body of carbon steel being a bit battered with heavy patina. The bevels however are shiny in exactly the same way as the tiny bevels on the previous knife are shiny. That is because this entire surface area needs to be in contact with the stone/abrasive when sharpening is undertaken. The same concept applies. You remove enough material from the entire surface area of both bevels until the edges are brought together to form the perfect apex. Think of it like a roof. Those shiny bits are where the tiles are and you sharpen (remove material) the tiles until the roof has a perfect ridge. At that point, your edge is formed. This edge can be refined by using finer and finer abrasives once the initial edge has been realised but is not needed for most applications.
Moras are easy to sharpen due to the large surface area of their bevels. It is very intuitive to hold this angle on your stone/abrasive because you can easily see and feel it beneath your fingers.
If you hold the knife flat to your stone/abrasive on the main body of the knife, it will look like this whereby you can see a gap between the stone and the cutting edge of the knife
You want to tilt the blade until the full surface area of the bevel (the shiny bits on the pictures above) sits flush on the stone. It will then look like this with no gap being visible between the cutting edge and the stone. If your knife has been sharpened poorly in the past, there might be the smallest gap here, as you have in effect ground away at the wrong part of the blade and created extra bevels at the very cutting edge of the blade. I have seen this loads with folks using pull through sharpeners or trying to sharpen a scandi grind in the same way as a flat grind. To correct this, you will need to remove a crap ton of material from the bevels until the geometry corrects to the original design.
What is the best way to sharpen a Mora? In my view, it is using either wet n dry paper on a flat piece of granite or a very hard stone like a diamond stone. The issue with sharpening Moras, especially if you are correcting previous damage due to incorrect sharpening is that you can dish and damage soft whetstones quite easily due to how much material needs removing. If you dish (put a concave shape in to the stone surface) your stone, it then makes sharpening correctly nigh on impossible. The stone needs flattening lots and you plough through them quickly resulting in replacements being needed more often than is necessary.
Moras tend to come from the factory not particularly sharp in my view. They have a workable edge but you can attain a much much more refined edge that will be dangerously sharp. They are not really a grind type that I personally like for cutting in to animals. They are a grunt blade, good for cutting in to wood and such and probably why lots of bush craft folk use them. I see it as a beater utility knife. Useful but not a slicing tool for intricate cutting work on flesh, skin etc. V grinds are better for that but are certainly harder to keep properly sharpened. They do tend to retain a better edge in my view though. Scandis can be very sharp and then the edge can just drop off the cliff and become very poor at slicing quickly.
I would encourage anyone to get a Mora or a cheap scandi grind to practice sharpening on. They are easy and promote good awareness and technique in terms of what sharpening actually is.
Once your knife is sharp, keep it sharp using a leather strop coated in compound like green dialux. That will increase the length of time between needing lengthy and boring sessions on the stones.
baguio
Well-Known Member
So have I but they don't hold a great edge for long. If they were quality blade steel it would have cost more than £9.99 don't you think?
baguio
Well-Known Member
He doesn't want "as cheap as chips"! He wants QUALITY!
baguio
Well-Known Member
I can't. I only own Moras and an Emberleaf. Neithet fit what the OP is asking for.
Danny25790
Well-Known Member
Something like these ?(not quite finished yet) just make one you'll feel so much better about it trust me.
Having mentioned Mora previously which made someone angry (really? must be the lockdown effect) the problem with the OP is he wants “quality knife“ but no mention of price range. The only other knives I have are EKA which are very good one is a folding knife the other is a swing blade very good and gives you two different blades, again get it with a orange handle
baguio
Well-Known Member
Sorry but it's nothing to do with the lockdown but to do with the answers on this thread. It's similar to a post a few weeks ago (and numerous others) when someone was after a scope suitable for use with his PARD. About a dozen people offered him their scope that they had for sale, none of which had parallax adjustment and therefore not suitable for use with a PARD.
It's not compulsory to reply to a post but if you do, then why not read what the OP wants and give an answer that is helpful and fits rather than what you currently use. It's really not difficult! 75% of suggestions on this thread are suggesting knives that are nothing like what the OP described and give me the impression that people are simply trying to run up their post counts for some reason? You tell me?
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As per my post the OP says ‘quality knife” but no price range, I along with many more think Mora for £10 is a quality knife. If he had posted “quality rifle” but no mention of price he would have triggered a similar response, to lots of guys who have them todays budget rifles are still quality tools. Not looking for an argument but if you want to focus the replies then the OP needs to give a price indication that focuses on requirements
baguio
Well-Known Member
£10 and quality is different in my eyes I'm afraid. Great value and a Mora would however fit. I own both ends of the spectrum and I know which one I would class as quality and it isn't the Mora!
sportingspaniels
Well-Known Member
One of the first things mentioned, in most threads about knives, is “if you lose/when you lose it”. Why is that ? I’ve never seen that said about binoculars? Spotting scope? Thermal etc etc?
baguio
Well-Known Member
Agreed. I bought my first Mora because someone told me that. I still have it and have never lost a knife to date!
That was my second knife, I thought it was going to be perfect but actually the main blade is much more of a fat skinning profile than a detail thing, and the tripe blade really isn't necessary for a gralloch. Still very useful in the larder particularly for the skinning, when the tripe blade really is useful for making the incisions up the legs and the main blade good for easing away the skin, particularly on muntjac which can be very resistant to being de-furred, unless done in the field whilst still warm.
First was a Cold Steel Finnbear, a sort of puuko but with a hollow grind. Quite excellent, and similar price to a Mora but so much better, steel included. Still my spare/backup knife. Actually I would still be content if it was my only knife.
Made the Elver for the fun of it and to move up a level, and so far very satisfied. Also gets used for food prep in the kitchen for which anything scandi ground is almost useless. Try finely slicing a tomato or an onion with one for example.
It takes about 10 seconds to put an edge on it with a steel...not exactly a hardship...and usually it lasts long enough to do a beast.
regards,
Gixer
baguio
Well-Known Member
Oh, must be quality then if it usually stay sharp enough to do a beast! Clearly my idea of quality is different from your's Gixer ?
Anyway, I'm now heading out to Primani to buy some quality clothes. Should be able to get a boot full for a tenner?
I think you mean “Primark” and to help you out they are closed due to a thing called “Covid Lockdown“ you may have mised it while getting overexcited about knives, just trying to helpOh, must be quality then if it usually stay sharp enough to do a beast! Clearly my idea of quality is different from your's Gixer ?
Anyway, I'm now heading out to Primani to buy some quality clothes. Should be able to get a boot full for a tenner?
baguio
Well-Known Member
Thanks for that Tazz.
Attachments
If it helps.......
Like many, I can't get excited about Opinel or to some extent Mora. Opinel are great for opening boxes in a warehouse and Mora are functional and cheap. I would rather have something that holds an edge for longer and, as a constant companion, is more pleasing to use.
I really like Fallkniven generally, but suggest that the F1 excels as a work-a-day/bushcraft knife. Mine's been round the world with me and its one of those 'prise it out of my cold dead hand' possessions. For a hunting knife however, the F2 is a lot slimmer and worth a look. Holds its edge like you wouldn't believe and after a few years using it, I find it hard to beat.
Fallkniven F2Z
I have a Swingblade and its damn handy, but if I am totally honest, the blade is a little wide.
I bought a Helle Harding on a whim a few years ago. A more traditional item, it works well and is just lovely.
Helle Harding
regards
Ian
Like many, I can't get excited about Opinel or to some extent Mora. Opinel are great for opening boxes in a warehouse and Mora are functional and cheap. I would rather have something that holds an edge for longer and, as a constant companion, is more pleasing to use.
I really like Fallkniven generally, but suggest that the F1 excels as a work-a-day/bushcraft knife. Mine's been round the world with me and its one of those 'prise it out of my cold dead hand' possessions. For a hunting knife however, the F2 is a lot slimmer and worth a look. Holds its edge like you wouldn't believe and after a few years using it, I find it hard to beat.
Fallkniven F2Z
I have a Swingblade and its damn handy, but if I am totally honest, the blade is a little wide.
I bought a Helle Harding on a whim a few years ago. A more traditional item, it works well and is just lovely.
Helle Harding
regards
Ian
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