Deer licks

https://Immersive-optics.com/
Been using Himalayan (sic) pink salt blocks for a number of years, secured approx 4ft or so of the ground, during the season I generally pour some liquid molasses over them, this drips and pools on a conveniently placed log underneath.
Block come with a hole to secure, it’s not long before gnaw marks are seen.

WB
 
Freeforester said:
Regional variations apply.

I know of NOWHERE in the highlands of Scotland nor several estates and deer farms in England where the mineral licks I was involved with in selling for over thirty (30) years where illness among deer resulted in them from licking a product which was after all, 99% vacuum salt in composition. Vacuum salt isn’t a great medium for disease transmission, it seems.

I do however know that,

a) the trace elements constituiting the other 1% resulted in the fecundity rate, trophy quality and bodyweights substantially increasing wherever they were used (- even South of the border too), and

b) the deer managers I worked with seems to be sufficiently happy to place repeat orders over time.

Make of this what you wish.

It could of course be contrived that the switch heads all ‘died off’ because of ‘mixing with other deer at feeding stations’ ( a commonplace management tool in many parts, without the downsides warned about here having the risk of manifesting themselves - like EVER), but that is of course not to recognise the potential for cross infection or transmission to be possible; it merely places the risk in context— it appears to be the case that for the last several decades on this side of the Atlantic the risk appears to be at best potential, if not overstated.

Not one single deer manager I was involved with has ever reported to me illness or some outbreak of disease in their stock as a result of Introducing proper trace element supplementation to their herd. For further context, some herds of stags in highland settings live roughly eleven months of the year around their stalker/manager’s environs being fed there, and only head off to the hill for a month or so to procreate. The eleven months that do not spread out, they somehow manage to avoid dying of some imaginary disease or plague, or seem to have done so to date.

The benefits of proper trace element supplementation therefore appear to outweigh the potential disadvantages in deer herds where it has been conducted - here at least - over the last three and a half decades. This is not to ignore the potential risks, but merely to state the real world outcomes over that time period.

YMMV.
Click to expand...

As you say, it is a case of weighing the benefits against the risks.

Scotland has been officially recognised as being bTB free since 2009. Would that the same were true in Southern England! If it was, I would probably still be putting mineral blocks out. As it is, the badger cull licences are still in place, and the Wildlife Trusts are out there vaccinating in our local area. Therefore I no longer use them.

As I said before, no-one has suggested that the practice of putting out salt licks should be banned. Everyone can make their own mind up about whether they want to do it. If you want to, go right ahead. If you don’t, that’s fine too.

Rather than reading posts on here, have a look at what organisations like the NGO say:


This is the paper the NGO refer to, co-authored by Rory Putman:

 
I think there's a world of difference between using nutritional supplements to correct trace element deficiency in the diet of wild (but nonetheless managed) deer populations, and using licks etc purely for the purpose of drawing animals into one area.

For nutritional supplementation, a number of licks should be widely dispersed throughout the range frequented by the target population, which is completely different from what you'd do if you were trying to draw deer into one area.
Also, any good stockman will move feed supplement blocks on a regular basis, particularly if it's seen that the area is getting heavily contaminated with faeces etc. Again, this is different from what you'd do if attempting to draw deer into a specific shooting zone.

There's also the fact that nutritional supplements are provided for the good of herd health, and are specially formulated for that purpose, so the potential benefits may outweigh the negatives. The same cannot be said for "deer attractants" which are used solely for the purpose of influencing deer behaviour, and not for their own good.
 
willie_gunn said:
As you say, it is a case of weighing the benefits against the risks.

Scotland has been officially recognised as being bTB free since 2009. Would that the same were true in Southern England! If it was, I would probably still be putting mineral blocks out. As it is, the badger cull licences are still in place, and the Wildlife Trusts are out there vaccinating in our local area. Therefore I no longer use them.

As I said before, no-one has suggested that the practice of putting out salt licks should be banned. Everyone can make their own mind up about whether they want to do it. If you want to, go right ahead. If you don’t, that’s fine too.

Rather than reading posts on here, have a look at what organisations like the NGO say:


This is the paper the NGO refer to, co-authored by Rory Putman:

Click to expand...
Bits of paper and studies will not stop transit deer walking into areas picking up TB and moving it to the next area.

What I see here is a post inflated by people who like quoting figures, again the small number of deer "getting sick" is a small % of the healthy deer.
Using the word "banned" is a poor choice of words, if it was worth the attention it would have the volume of replies such as the "lead ban" debate

Mention deer the curtains start twitching mention bird flu then the tv gets flicked to the next channel lol

Stop twitching the curtains and shuffling bits of paper :old:
 
Tim.243 said:
Yes, and like I said to willie gunn
If you think it would help then try lobbying the people who sell/buy it all over the UK as most animal feed/farm equipment stores sell it!
Everything is a risk but you won't find the horsey people or sheep farmers will stop buying it.
Bio-Hazzard I get that however, I shoot a big Turkey farm for a very nice family shot some huge fallow off there when they turn up I get some welding work also shoot the foxes and deer, they have a shoot on the farm, so when Bird flu was strong the owner asked me not to come over as he knows I shoot on a marsh (no problem at all lots of shooting)
Do the maths 9 guns shooting on all different farms in the week 15 beaters and farm family owners!! thankfully no bird flu but as you said

It's an increased risk :doh:
Click to expand...
If I had a shoot with the current AI risk I'd be kicking arses for people traipsing from location to location without washing off. The 2006 AI outbreak was precisely because no biosecurity was in place.
 
Freeforester said:
Regional variations apply.

I know of NOWHERE in the highlands of Scotland nor several estates and deer farms in England where the mineral licks I was involved with in selling for over thirty (30) years where illness among deer resulted in them from licking a product which was after all, 99% vacuum salt in composition. Vacuum salt isn’t a great medium for disease transmission, it seems.

I do however know that,

a) the trace elements constituiting the other 1% resulted in the fecundity rate, trophy quality and bodyweights substantially increasing wherever they were used (- even South of the border too), and

b) the deer managers I worked with seems to be sufficiently happy to place repeat orders over time.

Make of this what you wish.

It could of course be contrived that the switch heads all ‘died off’ because of ‘mixing with other deer at feeding stations’ ( a commonplace management tool in many parts, without the downsides warned about here having the risk of manifesting themselves - like EVER), but that is of course not to recognise the potential for cross infection or transmission to be possible; it merely places the risk in context— it appears to be the case that for the last several decades on this side of the Atlantic the risk appears to be at best potential, if not overstated.

Not one single deer manager I was involved with has ever reported to me illness or some outbreak of disease in their stock as a result of Introducing proper trace element supplementation to their herd. For further context, some herds of stags in highland settings live roughly eleven months of the year around their stalker/manager’s environs being fed there, and only head off to the hill for a month or so to procreate. The eleven months that do not spread out, they somehow manage to avoid dying of some imaginary disease or plague, or seem to have done so to date.

The benefits of proper trace element supplementation therefore appear to outweigh the potential disadvantages in deer herds where it has been conducted - here at least - over the last three and a half decades. This is not to ignore the potential risks, but merely to state the real world outcomes over that time period.

YMMV.
Click to expand...
Let's be clear - it isn't the lick that causes the problem but the crowding of animals that don't normally crowd. The transmission route (breathing for TB) remains the same, just the infected animal gets to infect more animals that it should do.
 
Buchan said:
If I had a shoot with the current AI risk I'd be kicking arses for people traipsing from location to location without washing off. The 2006 AI outbreak was precisely because no biosecurity was in place.
Click to expand...
You can't stop birds landing out of the sky, muntjac are the Carlberg of the deer world, Red/Fallow roam at will.
Good luck with that :tiphat:
 
Tim.243 said:
You can't stop birds landing out of the sky, muntjac are the Carlberg of the deer world, Red/Fallow roam at will.
Good luck with that :tiphat:
Click to expand...
No, you can't. But you can clean dirty boots and so keep the virus on one spot. Again Flu 2006, FMD 2001, most of the virus was carried onto the premises.
 
Buchan said:
No, you can't. But you can clean dirty boots and so keep the virus on one spot. Again Flu 2006, FMD 2001, most of the virus was carried onto the premises.
Click to expand...
Yes I agree, however as I said to Wille Gunn all this paper studies waving seems to be at the fore front of these ping pong replies, at the end of the day nature will do what it wants!
Bird Flu is more in the East with TB stronger in the West so I guess the salt lick sales are doing well in the West!
 
The blocks I supplied to the now King of the realm were scrutinised on his majesty’s behalf by the same expert/author of WG’s ‘blind ‘em with science’ paper . Make of that fact what you will.

It’s very simple stockmanship really - keep the deer numbers in balance with available forage, and supplement natural forage with otherwise missing or sub-optimal levels of trace elements, sufficient to permit females to conceive, carry and throw healthy calves, these thereafter have a greater potential to grow into good adult stock. A fawn, kid - or lamb for that matter - which has a lower than ideal birth weight has a much reduced chance of making a superior quality adult animal.

I do not at all discount the potential of outbreak of illness being exacerbated by concentrating animals in one area (do bear in mind the managers I dealt with were in the habit of putting out dozens of blocks distributed over the range of area under their control, with a great many doing so for the benefit of the calf-carrying number of the population, and not simply one or two blocks here or there), I merely suggest that in my time of dealing with said managers and estates/deer parks, not one single instance of the type of transmissible illness outbreak was reported. As previously mentioned - it’s ’certainly a possibility’… that the potential for such an eventuality to result, but in practice it did not appear to occur. The ‘danger’ of occurrence may thus be put into context at least where these large scale events were put into practice and thereafter observed. I neither wish to under- or overstate any risk, just relay the outcomes. As before, YMMV - your experience may be different.

Deer can be healthy and hardy, where managed well.
 
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