Devon and Cornwall Firearms Plymouth inquest.
- Thread starter Steve2_1
- Start date
This is when BASC AND ALL the shooting organisations need to do something, if they dont they will lose their jobs, which may motivate them more than normal but I doubt it.
Maybe if we all contact them and demand representation, slim chance but we should be pushing them.
Maybe if we all contact them and demand representation, slim chance but we should be pushing them.
Stalker62
Well-Known Member
This terrible incident has absolutely nothing to do with BASC (et al).
The 'new' Chief Constable of D&C has overseen a four million pound (funding) increase and a doubling of the FAL teams.
I hope that this means that firearms licensing in D&C will be better placed to perform their duties in the future - it would be a bold Chief Constable (in others parts of the UK) who saw what has happened in D&C and did not pay heed.
Their Chief Constable is already asking for 'national standards' of training and 'enforcement' - both of which I would welcome.
However, and mindful that the legal processes have not yet concluded, there is little doubt (in my mind) that D&C 'dropped the ball' with this.
It is a bloody awful business.
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They will do something, probably support the call for all sec 2 becoming sec 1 rather than risk upsetting the police and government as otherwise they may not be invited to participate in meetings.
Naturally they will also want being a member of a shooting org. as good reason for owning a shotgun.
8x57
Distinguished Member
+1 on that.
Yes we certainly haven't heard the last of this as regards the legal process.
I just wonder if there could possibly be a charge of corporate manslaughter made against D&C police for instance, or if other charges could be made under health & safety legislation. That's not forgetting any cases brought by the bereaved families.
and remember that a D&C sit on FELWG. How the CC can say "I accept Devon and Cornwall Police has failed our communities in regard to Jake Davison, but had there been clearer national guidance, direction and specific legislation concerning firearms licensing - decision-making locally may well have been very different." is beyond me.
Whitefront
Well-Known Member
Shooting groups reject call for firearms law change in England and Wales
Call by families of people killed by Jake Davison in 2021 Plymouth shootings sparks alarm within shooting community
www.theguardian.com
Mental Gymnastics EH?, can they not read?
timbrayford
Well-Known Member
It would be helpful if GP involvement became mandatory as part of their NHS contract instead of all this petulant don't want to do it stuff that the doctor in this case apparently came up with
The GP didn't decline as such, they actually said they were not qualified to answer on whether someone with those conditions was suitable.
“I decline to provide the requested report because it seeks an opinion on matters falling outside my medical expertise – namely assessment of behavioural and personality disorders.”
I actually think that's a fair enough comment to make. I don't agree that a GP should be able to refuse the service on the grounds they don't agree with firearms ownership, but that's not what happened here. A GP basically said, I'm not a mental health expert so I'm not putting my name to such a decision.
What should have then happened was not what did happen, a grant regardless. What should have happened was an escalation to someone that can answer, and does have the expertise.
timbrayford
Well-Known Member
That to some extent is a fair point , but prior to all this GP involvement for all applicants being brought in a report from a mental health specialist is precisely what would have been asked for in this case as per the earlier HO guidance
A very switched-on GP who possibly wavered between Medicine and Law at University.
It is an extremely valid point IMHO and irrespective of The Stalking Directory’s or indeed BASC’s take on what the FAC application form in question ‘asks’ for.
However, more than anything else it highlights where the whole issue of perceived mental health must surely be heading if what is needed to make the call on suitability, to be entrusted with a firearm, is to progress beyond a GP statement akin to “the Applicant in question hasn’t presented to my surgery in the last 15-years”.
In short the GP has no meaningful data to communicate other than his/her patient is to all intent and purpose healthy in body.
K
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timbrayford
Well-Known Member
One of the most frustrating things about this kind of incident is that irrespective of whether S2 or the more bureaucratic S1 conditions apply this tragedy would still have been facilitated by the police failing to follow rules that have been in place since 1968.
No amount of so called strict controls will have any impact at all on the criminal use of lawfully held firearms if the police are incompetent or corrupt or both.
The public sector brought in a 100 year cover up after Dunblane, it would have been far better if the administrators responsible had been publicly held to account and the lessons learned to prevent similar events such as happened in Plymouth.
No amount of so called strict controls will have any impact at all on the criminal use of lawfully held firearms if the police are incompetent or corrupt or both.
The public sector brought in a 100 year cover up after Dunblane, it would have been far better if the administrators responsible had been publicly held to account and the lessons learned to prevent similar events such as happened in Plymouth.
Whitefront
Well-Known Member
I understand that the wording is the standard BMC-approved response for GPs who wish to decline.
I think any forum member having Johnny Mercer, Conservative MP for Plymouth Moor as their MP should be writing to him or arrange a meeting at his surgery, asking him how further firearms controls like he suggests would make any difference if the police fail to apply the current policies and procedures that would and should have stoped this tragedy.
Plymouth shooting: Gun laws could be reformed
Home Office minister Chris Philp commits to making "any further changes needed" to licensing.
www.bbc.co.uk
IOPC
BASC
basc.org.uk
BASC
BASC statement on IOPC report into Keyham shootings
Read BASC's statement following the conclusion of the inquests into the shooting of five people by Jake Davison in 2021.
basc.org.uk
Northwest
Well-Known Member
This is all well and good and the GMC cop out statement, if it is that, is just purile, However, the doctor was not nor had he ever been asked if the person was suitable to hold a firearm, this is not what the Medical Pro-forma is asking, we all know what it says and it is not this, the police are to make the decision, the doctor is being asked whether or not the patient ie. applicant has ever suffered from or is suffering from this list of ailments! How nobody is not making an issue of this is beyond me.
Stalker62
Well-Known Member
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