Does it really matter

[ejg]

My father shot a kudu with his 32 mauser pistol, no problem, but repeat that practice a few hundred times and you'll have much more runners
than with a proper bullet and energy.

Callumity, I tried entering the classic shoot at the weekend with my match barreled carbon fiber stocked hunting rifle, I'd even
put open sights on it......they wouldn't let me. Maybe I should show them your post.
Just like aeroplanes and cars, rifles did improve in the last 100 years. Compare like for like.
Do you see any UK or US soldier handing in their issued rifles and taking grandads lee enfield into battle.??
Any US sniper replacing their rifle for an old nagant??
forget it
edi

 

[User00023]

Do you see any UK or US soldier handing in their issued rifles and taking grandads lee enfield into battle.?

I recall reading just recently that some US specialists have gone back to the M14.

 

[pheasant sniper 1]

Id swap an SA80 for an SLR any day.....

 

[callumity]

Funny that - in the 1949 trials the SMLE outshot the FN (SLR) as it had no stoppages and was inherently more accurate and the .280 EM2 was dropped due to US pressure for NATO to adopt .308. Having fired plenty of rounds through both SLR and SA80 the former is unquestionably the more accurate (SLR sights are on either side of the hinge) and you can carry double the ammo but for targets over 200m give me an SLR too as they will fall when hit.
Finally I am in no way saying rifles have not improved; merely that the accuracy improvements to the bullet are pretty marginal in real world conditions. Buy what you want but be realistic about chequebook marksmanship, the last few microns of accuracy come at progressively greater cost.

 

[JabaliHunter]

Actually the Empire was run on minimal numbers of civil servants. Half the world was run on fewer civil cervants than we now have in one department!

David.

population has gone up since then Just think of the unemployment if we didn't have all those boxes to tick

 

[MrYou]

It a trend, a matter of lust or need. Or as comes to light more regular....one upman ship ( poor f**ks) .....Anyhow i must get back to my polish twin sisters ............................................

 

[Offroad Gary]

so a 6.5 x 55 prohunter would be really **** then?

 

[Grandhubert]

The main problem is that it's easier to find someone to talk technical with than actually about deerstalking.

But hey, I'm a cynic.

 

[bewsher500]

Rifles and other equipment are not tax deductible in the normal sense, but are eligible as capital allowances the amount you can claim against tax is a percentage of the cost over several years, the actual percentage depends on the type of equipment and original cost quite complicated I think a job for the accountant.

you need to change your accountant!
if you are a stalker then the equipment and clothing you use and wear as part of your job are ESSENTIAL and are therefore an expense in full
are you saying ammunition is not a capital expenditure?
you cant allow a printer cartridge as capital expenditure and not the printer.

I have been self employed for 15 years and you would be amazed at the things the revenue have signed off once you speak to them and give them the full justification.

 

[scrumbag]

I recall reading just recently that some US specialists have gone back to the M14.

I recall reading just recently that some US specialists have gone back to the M14.

That's quite right. Funnily enough they are using it for urban warfare. Inessence, they are using marksmen over relatively short ranges to support the guys who are going house clearing.

The 7.62 has enough meat on it to punch through walls particularly on the edge of openings and even if it doesn't get through the flying chunks of walls usually deter even the most ardent insurgent. The semi auto capacity means that is works better in close support than a bolt action for multiple shots.

Some small stock and accessory making company realised there was a need for this, got a load of M14s out of grease in national guard armories, cleaned them up, put a new composite stock you could bolt all the standard rails, bipods etc on to and off it went. (The programme is on youtube, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DQ8pKd2Hn28)

Funnily enough, I saw anther programme (which you can get on youtube, 6.5 "Grendel": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ydP3DUIT_EU) and there is now a 6.5 mm round being developed for use in AR15 type rifles as there are calls from troops for something with more 'knock down' than the 5.56 mm.

Is there nothing new under the sun?

Scrummy

 

[dollman]

and answer is NO it does not matter ,but if you got the money buy what you want and good luck to you, we all little boys and we like our toys ,i have no custom rifles,but all my rifles shoot 1/2 ins at 100 or better with reloading, its what ever makes you happy, atb to every one steve

 

[ejg]

Problem is, very seldom that one shoots a deer on the 100yd range.
Hunting conditions vary, shooting positions vary when hunting this means the pressure exerted on the
rifle varies. On most factory hunting rifles this pressure is transfered one to one on to the barrel. Your
1/2" rifle under a different hunting position might still group 1/2" ...but somehwere else. If you want a 1/2"
rifle to print that group always in the same spot, get it worked on or customised.
Why not ask your rifle manufacturer if he can guarantee that your rifle will shoot to the same spot
under all shooting positions? including bipod, off sticks and so on. Or ask them if they'll take the rifle
back if it doesn't???
I've recently even reinforced a Blaser stock forend because it shot unreliably the way it came.

Another problem with most factory rifles is that they are almost always a compromise. How many of us
shoot their deer rifles with open sights? but the stocks are designed for open sights which leads
to lower comb, which leads to lower positioned butt pad, which leads to muzzleflip. No real problem
when shooting off-hand at running game but a precise shot at a longer range? The POI will then depend
on how tight you hold the forend, been there done that.
Customising can also mean less compromise.
edi

 

[The Singing Stalker]

I find (and please remember I haven't got the years of experience of members here, um, shooting wise that is ) that most things in life are a compromise. I want a Ferrari but can only afford a mondeo. In reality a mondeo is more than suitable for my needs, but if I had the money I would have the Ferrari. Because I can, rather than because I need it.
I know a number of people, one of whom I respect greatly and he has been shooting deer with a 6.5x55 for years and it is a standard off the shelf. Mind you it was probably the higher end of the off the shelf when he got it.
The debate goes into the do you actually need it because of the improvement or do you want it because you can afford it. The good old fit for purpose. Maybe the money would be better spent on taking some lessons ans punching holes in paper until you can outshoot the rifle and then consider the custom route
I started looking at customs because of the price of a left hand rifle and for the money difference between a custom and a left hand rifle it was looking that it might be worth considering.
I spoke to a one custom maker and my spec was; .223 light rifle for traipsing the fields, max 2/3 shots as it was for foxing so light barrel, mainly shooting between 150 and 250 yards. My very extreme range with lots of practice would be 450 yards but unlikely to reach that for a number of years as I personally feel that is beyond my ability and wouldn't want to risk it.
He specced a heavy barrel and an AI stock because I would want to shoot 1000 yards . After I told him I wouldn't. I worked out the weight and figured that 15 minutes lugging it around the field would be enough for me. ( He was the exception)
Of course the problem for the custom rifle maker is interpretating what the customer wants. Look at any job description and go for an interview. The 2 rarely are the same. So a "good" custom builder is going to have to spend some time trying to figure out that what the customer wants, is actually what he really needs. And sometimes life would be so easy except for customers

If I heart and lung a deer the target point is 4", so if I can hit consistently hit 3/4" (I can)then I don't need better. For now I have managed to conclude that it is not in my interest to buy a custom rifle. BUT, in a year or so everything may change. I might decide that paperpunching at Bisley at 1,000 yards is exciting or find that I want to fox at 600 yards. But I will wait until I my abilities or my wallet excel.

But there is definitely a need for custome rifle builders, but only you, the customer can decide if it is going to improve your ability to hit whatever you are aiming at.
Are you good enough to warrent it? At this stage I don't think i am.

 

[dollman]

Problem is, very seldom that one shoots a deer on the 100yd range.
Hunting conditions vary, shooting positions vary when hunting this means the pressure exerted on the
rifle varies. On most factory hunting rifles this pressure is transfered one to one on to the barrel. Your
1/2" rifle under a different hunting position might still group 1/2" ...but somehwere else. If you want a 1/2"
rifle to print that group always in the same spot, get it worked on or customised.
Why not ask your rifle manufacturer if he can guarantee that your rifle will shoot to the same spot
under all shooting positions? including bipod, off sticks and so on. Or ask them if they'll take the rifle
back if it doesn't???
I've recently even reinforced a Blaser stock forend because it shot unreliably the way it came.

Another problem with most factory rifles is that they are almost always a compromise. How many of us
shoot their deer rifles with open sights? but the stocks are designed for open sights which leads
to lower comb, which leads to lower positioned butt pad, which leads to muzzleflip. No real problem
when shooting off-hand at running game but a precise shot at a longer range? The POI will then depend
on how tight you hold the forend, been there done that.
Customising can also mean less compromise.
edi

to say a rifle varies well it does, but not enough ,the main two are wind and most of all the nut on the butt

 

[moeggesit]

Caliber does matter a lot! I find more and more that people use calibers that are not powerfull enough.

Under good conditions some .22 centerfires are OK for animals up to roe size, legality besides the point. Bigger and heavier animals need a bigger caliber. 243 is marginal at best for animals in the class of reds. A lot can be said for the size of the caliber in contrast to its velocity. Velocity (temporary cavity in carcass or shock) can never substitute size (permanent cavity).

It has to be taken into account that all shots are not always taken in ideal conditions and that you should err on the side of caution, so why would you use a 22 centerfire on deer when it is margianal at best? It is your responcibility to use a caliber that will ensure the least amount of suffering. Only sufficient penetration can ensure a clean kill and lightweight bullets such as usually found in 22's does not have what it takes. It can even deflect from bone and not hit the vital organs ( something that happened to me using a 9.3x62 on a blue-brindled gnu and another using a 308 on warthog).

Do not be tempted to use a undersized caliber, even if you have to buy another. Cost will not make it more or less suitable, as long as the caliber is big enough and you can hit the vitals it does not matter which you use.

My 2p worth.