FAC AIR - Coming off ticket

[deerly departed]

I know this is a bit of a grey area re converting FAC air to off ticket, but has anybody ACTUALLY had an FAC air removed from FAC and which force was it.

My understanding has always been once on FAC, always on FAC.

Personally, I find this ridiculous as most air can be easily converted either way with (mostly) relative ease and confirmed by either original manufacturer or suitably qualified RFD/Gunsmith and an Anti-Tamper device fitted (which in itself) is not actually a legal requirement.

So real life conversions you can 100% confirm would be interesting. Thanks

 

[mealiejimmy]

You are correct - because, AFAIK, there is no legal mechanism that allows an FAC air rifle to be "downgraded" to non FAC
The police will not pay for the cost of the tests to prove that it no longer an FAC rifle, and they are unlikely to accept any tests you may put forward to show the same thing
AFAIK, there is no accredited body that could perform these tests and have the results accepted by the police

Cheers

Bruce

 

[8x57]

I was always under the impression (with the exception of semi-auto and pump action shotguns) that once a firearm, always a firearm, but I've read on forums of a few cases where police forces have allowed the conversion/downgrading of FAC air guns to non FAC. Whether this was entirely correct legally I simply don't know.

As for the testing of conversions that would be a simply a matter of running the gun over a chronagraph utilising pellets of different weights. If the police were in any doubt as to the legality of the conversion all they would do is submit the gun to the National Ballistics Intelligence Service for testing. https://www.nabis.police.uk/

 

[Klenchblaize]

Fill your boots:
Thread 'FAC back to 12ft/lbs?'
FAC back to 12ft/lbs?
K

 

[17 squirrel]

A few years ago I had a Daystate converted back to sub 12ft/lb. I had to take it to Daystate, (about half an hour from me) they did the work, gave me new paperwork, stamped an “A” at the end of the serial number, which I believe basically means it’s a new rifle.
The BASC had a form you could print off for a variation, i just put that I had disposed of, scraped the rifle quoting the original serial number.
If I remember correctly they had a price for doing it on their website. I do remember that it wasn’t cheap.

 

[8x57]

A few years ago I had a Daystate converted back to sub 12ft/lb. I had to take it to Daystate, (about half an hour from me) they did the work, gave me new paperwork, stamped an “A” at the end of the serial number, which I believe basically means it’s a new rifle.
The BASC had a form you could print off for a variation, i just put that I had disposed of, scraped the rifle quoting the original serial number.
If I remember correctly they had a price for doing it on their website. I do remember that it wasn’t cheap.

That's interesting, especially when you consider what happened when companies attempted to convert/re-manufacture semi-auto rifles into straight pull rifles. Basically they were told that it couldn't be done and that straight pull rifles had to be built as such from scratch. This may have changed since then.

 

[Tim.243]

You are correct - because, AFAIK, there is no legal mechanism that allows an FAC air rifle to be "downgraded" to non FAC
The police will not pay for the cost of the tests to prove that it no longer an FAC rifle, and they are unlikely to accept any tests you may put forward to show the same thing
AFAIK, there is no accredited body that could perform these tests and have the results accepted by the police

Cheers

Bruce

The flip side to that is my friend has his set and tested to 11.8fp's and kept the cert in the car then poked it under the police who had come over 1 field and took him back to his car...then went away.

 

[Frank Homes]

S. 7 1988 Firearms Amendment Act is the relevant legislation.

 

[25 Sharps]

I know this is a bit of a grey area re converting FAC air to off ticket, but has anybody ACTUALLY had an FAC air removed from FAC and which force was it.

My understanding has always been once on FAC, always on FAC.

Personally, I find this ridiculous as most air can be easily converted either way with (mostly) relative ease and confirmed by either original manufacturer or suitably qualified RFD/Gunsmith and an Anti-Tamper device fitted (which in itself) is not actually a legal requirement.

So real life conversions you can 100% confirm would be interesting. Thanks

My RFD used to take them off.

 

[bbrc]

An aquaintance of mine wanted to shoot in an air rifle comp in Germany, in order to fly the airlines wanted him to have a certificate for the gun so he had it added to his FAC even though it was never over 12 ftlbs thinking that he would simply have it taken off after he returned.
The ensuing attempts at finding a way that it could be taken off almost resulted in both him and his RFD losing there certificates.
Take advice, in writing, from your Firearms Licensing department and perhaps Basc or whatever shooting organisation you are a member of prior to attempting it.
It does not matter what RFd's or any forum members advise it is your firearm licensing department that will be the ones that decide if they are happy with what you are trying to do, hopefully they will have the correct legal view on it, if not then at least you are forewarned and can submit your case with relevant legislation attached before you risk trying or asking for anything they disagree with

 

[deerly departed]

Well, I am approaching Firearms licensing, BASC as well as RFD's to find out if its a no no or its actually been done.

Its mote about contradictory comment. Some say once FAC Always FAC and others say yeah, they did it to my Gat....

Well Daystate have confirmed they can do it but depends on how forces interpret or action at there end. Boils down to imminently possible but pointless if your force wont entertain it. AsxIbhave also stated OM will probably fit an AT wven though there is no legal requirement and there are thousands that never had it or are removed for the strict puurpose to tune to a specific pellet or to easily back it off it starts to creep the wrong way.

To be honest, not sure why this situation exists as air rifles can easily be made FAC or non FAC with relative ease.

Even std sub 12 can be made FAC power simply by changing the pellet bearing in mind, you can go ultra lite or uber heavy with head size options and not to mention slug/pellet choices and even material such as lead/alloy and tin, brass etc.

I think this shouldn't be an issue nowadays.

Some fac airs can be set up to shoot high FPE and turn down to sub 12 as std but of course that's not what this post is about.

Its a bit like why exactly, are mods considered to be FAC rated components?

Our Firearms laws are so out dated - even ridiculous at times.

 

[deerly departed]

You are correct - because, AFAIK, there is no legal mechanism that allows an FAC air rifle to be "downgraded" to non FAC
The police will not pay for the cost of the tests to prove that it no longer an FAC rifle, and they are unlikely to accept any tests you may put forward to show the same thing
AFAIK, there is no accredited body that could perform these tests and have the results accepted by the police

Cheers

Bruce

 

[deerly departed]

Thats what I am sort of asking.
I would not expect them to pay for testing. As for confirmation re output, if the original manufacturer stated that is converted back to sub 12, then this should suffice. If they test all their products to sub 12 and the police take that at face value then why not alterations. It's nonsensical so probably is the case as some of our legislation is completely bonkers.

 

[Pete6.5]

Well, I am approaching Firearms licensing, BASC as well as RFD's to find out if its a no no or its actually been done.

Its mote about contradictory comment. Some say once FAC Always FAC and others say yeah, they did it to my Gat....

Well Daystate have confirmed they can do it but depends on how forces interpret or action at there end. Boils down to imminently possible but pointless if your force wont entertain it. AsxIbhave also stated OM will probably fit an AT wven though there is no legal requirement and there are thousands that never had it or are removed for the strict puurpose to tune to a specific pellet or to easily back it off it starts to creep the wrong way.

To be honest, not sure why this situation exists as air rifles can easily be made FAC or non FAC with relative ease.

Even std sub 12 can be made FAC power simply by changing the pellet bearing in mind, you can go ultra lite or uber heavy with head size options and not to mention slug/pellet choices and even material such as lead/alloy and tin, brass etc.

I think this shouldn't be an issue nowadays.

Some fac airs can be set up to shoot high FPE and turn down to sub 12 as std but of course that's not what this post is about.

Its a bit like why exactly, are mods considered to be FAC rated components?

Our Firearms laws are so out dated - even ridiculous at times.

Sub 12 air rifles should not go above 12 with any pellet if it does you could get into a lot of trouble. It's probably best to sell the fac and buy a second hand sub 12 one and just save on the time and headache.

 

[Boosh]

What part of the air rifle is the FAC bit?
I can only imagine it is the breech with any numbers on it.
What is needed to satify the law that it's been scrapped?

 

[deerly departed]

Sub 12 air rifles should not go above 12 with any pellet if it does you could get into a lot of trouble. It's probably best to sell the fac and buy a second hand sub 12 one and just save on the time and headache.

1. FAC isnt selling
2. I know sub 12 musnt exceed 12FPE? Whats your point. I have been trying to sell for over a year. As it goes my very servicible .22 LR's sold for £50.00 each. I am not going to "give" all my FAC's away for peanuts
3. An RFD said if its converted to sub 12, you will sell easily and more money!
4. Daystate say that they can convert but it varies depending on your force
5. BASC say once FAC, always FAC
6. Who said I want to but 2nd hand or another air.

 

[Pete6.5]

1. FAC isnt selling
2. I know sub 12 musnt exceed 12FPE? Whats your point. I have been trying to sell for over a year. As it goes my very servicible .22 LR's sold for £50.00 each. I am not going to "give" all my FAC's away for peanuts
3. An RFD said if its converted to sub 12, you will sell easily and more money!
4. Daystate say that they can convert but it varies depending on your force
5. BASC say once FAC, always FAC
6. Who said I want to but 2nd hand or another air.

You're the one who mentioned any 12 could be made fac by changing the pellet. I was just pointing out that shouldn't be possible. You must of had a realistic valuation done if your air rifle was 12 or fac. So you will know if "the juice is worth the squeeze"
As for fac rifles not being worth much second hand I'm afraid that's just the way it is. I've handed perfectly working rifles and moderators over to police for disposal because they are next to worthless.
Sorry for assuming you wanted to keep a air rifle but off ticket.

 

[Boosh]

Pellet dependant, but a sub 12ft/lb rifle shooting close to the limit in 1.77 and .22 can easily go over the 12ft/lb limit just by using a different heavier pellet.
In .22 shooting AA 15.89grn switching to AA18.1grn will see a rifle go over
And the same in .177
An AA 8.4 grn pushing close to the limit (11.88 from memory?), will go over as soon a AA10.34grn heavy is used with no adjustment.

 

[deerly departed]

Temperature can change the output let alone grain weight. My styer went hot when thevair was low and the reg dropped out. You cant cover evety permutation. With due respect, I suspect exceptionally few UK owned rifles will NOT go over the limit with the selection of ultra light through to ultra heavies available on the market today. The theory is great the reality is different.
An RFD suggested the rifle would sell easily and for mote money if it was FAC. I have always held the view once FAC always FAC.
I am seeking advice if it is possible and if my force holds that view.
If so, I will find out and then figure if the squeeze is worth the juice as you say.
My preference has always been light rifles but reality, I always bought heavy/long.
I am multiple disabled and heavy rifles I can't handle anymore. I am changing all my rifles to lighter and switch barrels. The Air Ranger is too big and can't be fitted with sling easily.
Hence me trying to find the best options as pretty much all my kit has to change AND fund the replacements.

 

[Pedro]

Unfortunately sometimes firearms are like underpants. Worth nothing second hand.

To the best of my knowledge, once something is classified as a FAC item, there it stays. Except hopefully in the near future, moderators. I suppose the only real way to get it off your certificate and keep it would be to have it properly deactivated. Not that I see anyone doing that!