Farmer beat up

[Apthorpe]

Quite right. But you'd be better off if you didn't have the uncertainty. If you'd hit him harder (adrenalin and all..) or had a different judge you could have faced criminal charges for what you did. That would be totally unfair in my view.
As you say, FFS...less than 10 days prison per burglary for a habitual offender?? Not exactly what anyone sane understands as justice.

 

[old man]

This may be of help?

google

Self Defence: Legal Guidance: The Crown Prosecution Service

 

[shakey jake]

Reasonable force means once the threat is gone you stop using force. You cant claim self defence if they are running away from you. You can fight with intruders untill you dont fear for your saftey or they cant fight back. Its not so much what you do as what you say if questioned. Cant be a good feeling being the farmer 3 on 1 isnt a good situation hope he recovers

 

[sauer]

With typical police responses being what they are ..... & I don't want to turn this into a police bashing thread but is it any wonder these days that the theiving scum are getting bolder & bolder & nothing exponentially happens at the law abiding end .....then the sentences dished out are a joke ....is it any wonder folks are taking things into their own hands ?

Paul

 

[Apthorpe]

This may be of help?

google

Self Defence: Legal Guidance: The Crown Prosecution Service

Thank you. It's not really of any help except to confirm my point. A summary consisting of a couple of thousand words to the effect that your actions are subject to the interpretation of a jury with respect to the situation, what you thought or feared at the time, whether you need to have been attacked first, whether any force was necessary and separately if that amount was reasonable.
It's a system not fit for purpose if the citizen does not know definitely a priori what is reasonable and acceptable. You have people being convicted for beating masked burglars inside their property at night while under the same system people have even been cleared of any wrongdoing when killing undercover policemen.
Can you define exactly what degree of violence I can legally employ if i find a burglar in my house at night? Is it definitely ok to bash him hard over the head with a baseball bat? Having broken in, he obviously has some solid implement that could be used as a weapon and could likely be armed with other weapons. It's dark.
The criteria are stricter than those applying to the police who are , apparently, entitled to shoot people and even taser pensioners in the genitals without any such judgment being applied to their actions.

 

[EMcC]

If you found a burglar in your house at night and hit him over the head with a baseball bat you would have to make sure the burglar was hit from the front.
Hit from the front he could have been threatening you or approaching you with criminal intent so self defence could be argued.
If you hit him from behind the burglar did not know you were there so was not a threat to you, so you could then be classed as the aggressor so would be banged up !!

 

[Pedro]

I think the use of force has been discussed before on here. It'll always be a contentious issue because it is impossible to legislate for all eventualities. In some circumstances it will be acceptable to use deadly force whereas in others a shove might be illegal.

The farmer who shot a burglar and went to prison is always mentioned. His problem was that he shot him as he was running away and was no threat to the farmer.

 

[TonyR]

It all relies on what you say afterwards,unfortunately the honest person will consider their action reasonable and probably talk themselves into trouble The criminal will
lie his eyes out and the only way to combat this is to follow his example or be too shocked to talk until you have had some good advice .Remember most policemen but not all will have sympathy with you so just be careful what you say.

Tony

 

[375 mag]

I put my life above all else, I'd rather be locked up for few years than dead !

 

[Apthorpe]

I put my life above all else, I'd rather be locked up for few years than dead !

Quite. But it's outrageous that anybody should ever be locked up for something like this. Householders are entitled to use "reasonable and necessary force". Burglars know this so it is reasonable to assume they have provided themselves with some means of overcoming that force.

Nobody accidentally burgles an inhabited house at night. It should certainly be legal to use lethal force at night as a first resort.

 

[sauer]

I've heard of cases where the person who broke into a home , gets beaten up then the crap about his rights being violated ......

Law should be simple .....the minute you cross a boundary into someone's home unannounced / uninvited ...i.e..break in then you have given up your rights !

My wife and kids in the house & my cabinets with said rifles etc ....how do I know the aren't after them, or the kids .....I would be making damn sure if at all possible said uninvited persons would be " detained"

It's simple .....the law is not right and the sentences are no deterrent at all .

Paul

 

[Uncas]

Well all I can say is if rural farmers carried a Hammer shaft on their quads or a big heavy knife on their belt they would have run off and if not tough for them.

 

[old man]

Couple of random thoughts?

A baseball bat would be a really bad idea as it could be deemed kept for the purpose of causing injury, a poker or similar household item (not a knife) would be better?

An injury to self would be an indication of force applied by the other person?

Be prepared to have to defend in court whatever actions you take following your probable arrest?

From the lips of a barrister on a train journey last summer.
A really informative and insightful 3 hours.

 

[User00025]

Couple of random thoughts?

A baseball bat would be a really bad idea as it could be deemed kept for the purpose of causing injury, a poker or similar household item (not a knife) would be better?

An injury to self would be an indication of force applied by the other person?

Be prepared to have to defend in court whatever actions you take following your probable arrest?

From the lips of a barrister on a train journey last summer.
A really informative and insightful 3 hours.

Always have a glove and ball with the bat, perfectly legal. An old friend always had a set on his stand at Gamefairs, very handy with the undesirables that steal nowadays.

 

[AN DU RU FOX]

An old woman i used to run errands for,had a ten inch bread knife and a paper toffee bag full of pepper at her side.she could hardly pick the knife up,

 

[sauer]

I bet even having one of the big old maglites would be frowned upon
Decent weight on the hand and not too big .....


Paul

 

[tozzybum]

The law is an ass ,defend yourself and you get nicked no way is this right by any definition.If your attacked by person/s unknown the law needs changing to allow u to save yourself from battering by scum.
There is no way anyone who lives by robbing thieving and being a parasite be allowed to claim uman rights if you overpower the vermin and all previous should be listed in court to show the judge/jury what a charmer is in front of them

 

[Defender 130]

There is no way anyone who lives by robbing thieving and being a parasite be allowed to claim uman rights if you overpower the vermin and all previous should be listed in court to show the judge/jury what a charmer is in front of them

There was a case a few years ago where thieving scum got shot and the judge told them tough luck don't go robbing people with legally held guns or expect to get shot if you do


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/9569359/Expect-to-be-shot-if-you-burgle-gun-owners-judge-warns-criminals.html

 

[Old-YOP]

A baseball bat would be a really bad idea.

I was always advised by a friendly plod (now past and gone) to keep TWO baseball bats by the back door.

One that he bought with him- look, Yer Honour, it's got his finger prints on it - and the other one mine that was handily available to smack him about a bit.

Or a lot.

 

[old man]

Said barrister, also informed a court was just like a drama show?

The idea being not to give the opposing side any advantages, hence a household item and not a bat that would be an unlikely item to be around in normal circumstances?

I have his number anyway as I would like him on my side should needs must when the devil drives.