FEO calling old references

[timbrayford]

It has to be questioned whether this referees nonsense serves any useful purpose at all, after all you are hardly likely to use someone who will give you a bad reference, and it can lead to embarrassing situations with friends and acquaintances too, especially if they have hitherto hidden their own criminal records!

 

[Dan Newcombe]

I changed both mine at my last renewal because I had moved and they had moved so for the last couple years I didn’t see either of them anywhere near as much as I used to so it seemed sensible to put two who I shoot with regularly.

He asked when we met why I had changed and I told him I didn’t see the old ones as much since we all moved away and he seemed happy but still called at least one of them which sort of surprised me because I thought my living in Scotland and one of them living in Wiltshire (the one he called) was pretty self explanatory with my justification.

Honestly doesn’t really bother me because I had nothing to hide, the old ones could easily have stayed on there but I thought I was being helpful by updating it. Does make me wonder about GDPR though.

There are more important things to theoretically worry about.

 

[Mickeydredd]

Interested in the circumstances for point 3.

Where the Police believe a crime is being committed or someone is in danger.

 

[Pedro]

I

Interested in the circumstances for point 3.

• Re-arrest an individual who has absconded from custody
• Save a life or prevent the destruction of property
• Arrest an individual accused of certain serious offences
• Respond to a serious breach of the peace
• Recover evidence after an individual has been arrested

So, in practice, if a prisoner has escaped and you (as a police officer) believe he's in the house, if someone has, for example committed a robbery and you believe he's in there, if you are beating up your wife inside and don't want to answer the door, and once you have arrested someone and you suspect evidence might be in the house.

There is also a power to enter to save life and property. Fire and rescue personnel can do this too.

So the circumstances are very specific and those circumstances above apart, the police don't have carte blanch to barrel into people's houses. Some of them are subject to scrutiny too, in that some need an Inspector's permission to be recorded.

 

[User00056]

Believe what you like.

Thank you. I think we'll agree to disagree in this case. No doubt FEOs will continue down whichever path they see fit, regardless of the actual requirements.

Credo aliud credus aliud

 

[Hambone]

Maybe "guidance" was the wrong word to use.

Go beyond what guidance?

There is no guidance. They can conduct any enquiries they deem appropriate. To suggest they do otherwise in order to reduce waiting lists, demonstrates a complete lack of understanding of their role.

The application calls for two referees. It does not call for the applicant to justify changing their referees or give an explanation as to why they have changed.

 

[Greenmist]

To be fair to the police, they can only act on the limited information on the form, I had a similar experience which was cleared up with a phone call, from the police perspective I'd moved three times and changed jobs four times, it could have indicated I was either a bad tenant and was being evicted or even a bad employee who was getting sacked. The truth of it was, one property I was renting at the time was sold and I was head hunted twice and had the relocate for the new positions (the most recent of which being during my renewal)

 

[Stalker62]

The application calls for two referees.

Indeed it does.

It does not call for the applicant to justify changing their referees or give an explanation as to why they have changed.

You are in danger of inventing restrictions on what the Police can and cannot do, whilst conducting their due diligence.

There are no (real) restrictions.

I utterly fail to see the issue.



Dear FEO,

Ask who you want, about what you want.


If the due diligence of your FEO for your grant/renewal is so offensive to you; I urge you never to apply for any job that requires you to be 'vetted'.

Now they really do probe your background.

 

[Mickeydredd]

Now they really do probe your background.

 

[bryn]

after all you are hardly likely to use someone who will give you a bad reference,

Which sort of begs the question “How come you’ve changed your etc etc etc ……,

 

[VSS]

Which sort of begs the question “How come you’ve changed your etc etc etc ……,

I can honestly say I've never been asked why I've used different referees for every renewal.
Always seemed sensible to me to change them, and I'll continue to do so. With a 5 year licence period, that means I've used 10 different sets of referees so far!

 

[timbrayford]

Which sort of begs the question “How come you’ve changed your etc etc etc ……,

Dead, moved away etc?

 

[Greenmist]

Which sort of begs the question “How come you’ve changed your etc etc etc ……,

I suppose if the reply was, I nicked his car or he caught me banging his wife then you might now be the fine upstanding citizen you portray yourself as

 

[NullMac]

Certainly m normal for Police Scotland

 

[Edinburgh Rifles]

Normal?

No its not
What next? Going to just ring your wife for a chat see jow your sex life is going?!

They are taking the **** lately
Some of the absolute horse**** they are coming up with and completely off the reservation requests and actions are taking the proverbial

You provided references
They contact them
All good?
Move on!

Fishing exercises are not standard

Christ
When I actually do flag an (potential) issue with an FAC holder they do precisely feck all

More people need to start filing complaints and logging erroneous actions and activity

One of my customers has been without his physical FAC for 6 weeks for a change of address and was asked to justify his good reasons again
As well as being a serving member in the armed forces being questioned about whether he is safe with firearms
He already has an FAC mate!!

Another has been asked to do a training course to move from 243 to .270
What course would that be then!?

Ridiculous

 

[Firefly]

I’m in the process of my first renewal and I’d changed my references - both were people I worked with last time, and now both are friends with FACs. The FEO called the old references asking if we’d fallen out or if there’s any reason I shouldn’t have a gun.
Is this normal? It’s quite a clever move, but has left me slightly paranoid.

Hardly against the law to fall out with anyone anyway. Completely ridiculous. When you think about it the more people you have willing to vouch for your good character the better.

 

[Jh1986]

My last two both independently said they didn't like the process of being quizzed about me. Both said it was less of a friendly chit-chat and more like being interrogated by the Gestapo.

I'm not sure they'd want to be put as references again, but I'm also not sure the feo would like the answer if they asked them why

 

[Pard 007]

Thought they would contact references on your renewal form not previous ones, who's to say they haven't passed away!! Just in process of my renewal references contacted, visit done even counted ammunition this time not been done previous. Has even contacted Mrs Pard seems to be going town. But said new certificates should be here next wk, was put in in June

 

[User00056]

You provided references
They contact them
All good?
Move on!

Absolutely this

 

[25 Sharps]

If you change referees, it is now standard practice to ring the former ones to ask why they are no longer listed, and the new ones will almost certainly be contacted as well, if only because they are new. The net result is more work for the police, more stages to go through, and a greater likelihood of a delay.

None of my referees, new or old were contacted on my last renewal.