Films using real bullets at a shoot-out.

[EMcC]

I watched a film last night where there were gun fights galore with dead bodies all over the place, American naturally.
Well actually in one of the scenes where the gunman was using an automatic high power gun to kill the other guys, I saw a case ejected with a crimped mouth like blanks, so I'm surprised that bit wasn't edited out.
The only thing he didn't have was the BFA on the muzzle

 

[Hook'N'Bullet]

I don't get it - it was a blank?

 

[dodgyrog]

I remember the Tarzan films where animals were actually shot and killed for the film

 

[GrahamK998]

A BFA (Blank Firing Atachment) would only be required on a fully serviceable gas operated selective fire firearm. I'd expect that a film prop would be constructed so as not needing one.

 

[Bavarianbrit]

All I have seen for years is the computer generated flash "so unreal".

 

[EMcC]

I don't get it - it was a blank?

Blank cartridges are crimped closed at the mouth of the case as seen in this film but he was shooting and killing the enemy !!

 

[Swedish]

Fun fact, old Hollywood movies often used live ammunition!

 

[nick100]

It seems some still do.

 

[8x57]

A BFA (Blank Firing Atachment) would only be required on a fully serviceable gas operated selective fire firearm. I'd expect that a film prop would be constructed so as not needing one.

I recall a very interesting article in Guns and ammo many moons ago where they were interviewing one of the top Holywood armourers. Getting bolt action rifles and revolvers to fire blanks for film work was no problem at all, but to get a semi auto pistol or a self loading rifle or machine gun to function reliably with blanks presented quite a challenge. To achieve this and still have the firearm resemble the original unadulterated firearm required the use of special solid barrels that were not entirely bored through, just a small vent hole to allow excess gases to escape. The difficult part was in getting the engineering right so that there was sufficient back pressure to function the action and to reload it just as a muzzle mounted BFD would do but without it being too obvious.

 

[Puds]

It seems some still do.

Just ask Alec Baldwin.

 

[Pedro]

The most unrealistic thing in movies often for me in fire fight scenes is when the gun/rifle is fired and there's absolutely no recoil.

 

[urx]

I have seen up close some auto weapons used for film work which have had ‘semi plugs’ installed so that the outer appearance of the barrel is retained but the inner only has a small vent hole forwards
Not entirely sure id be confident standing in front of something like that as parts of the blanks can still be ejected forward wiith some fair energy.
Guns i saw included an mp40 an LSW, M60, GPMG and others….

 

[GGG]

Fun fact, old Hollywood movies often used live ammunition!

It was indeed standard practice, James Cagney was almost killed in one of his early films and this prompted him to insist no live ammo in his films, leading to it being phased out over the years.

 

[Selous]

I understand that the river boat scene in Act of Valour was a live fire event!! Quite spectacular too with the mini guns opening up!!

 

[Husky]

The most unrealistic thing in movies often for me in fire fight scenes is when the gun/rifle is fired and there's absolutely no recoil.

The most unrealistic thing for me is when someone is blown ten feet backwards after being shot, never seen a deer doing that !

 

[urx]

For me unrealistic is when someone is spraying up a car with an AK or M4 and the ‘bullets’ are bouncing of with sparks but no marks on the paint where its should resemble a colander.

 

[Laurie]

I have seen up close some auto weapons used for film work which have had ‘semi plugs’ installed so that the outer appearance of the barrel is retained but the inner only has a small vent hole forwards
Not entirely sure id be confident standing in front of something like that as parts of the blanks can still be ejected forward wiith some fair energy.
Guns i saw included an mp40 an LSW, M60, GPMG and others….

I examined a 45ACP Colt 1911 used in film work many years ago and more recently a small collection of assault rifles from a different source. Yes, muzzle restrictors had been fixed inside the barrels a little back from the muzzles to create back-pressure from blanks whilst still looking pukka from the front. (I'd hope that the restrictor sections were securely soldered in or otherwise solidly fixed as an inch or two steel bushing being ejected from the muzzle could have done 'an Alex Baldwin' on somebody!) I'd imagine that lighter or chopped mainsprings were also used, maybe a bit of bolt and bolt-carrier lightening too. A far cry from the early episodes of BBC 'Dr Who' that I'd watched Saturday teatimes as a boy with Brig Lethbridge-Stuart and his troopers running down streets 'firing' SLRs and frantically working cocking handles to operate their actions and feed another blank in.

Incidentally, these firearms remained 'Section 5' (S1 in the case of the pistol as this encounter was pre-Dunblane), so required the owning companies to hold the appropriate Home Office authority. How they were managed on location I don't know - presumably the rental company had to have a rep on site who held them when not needed on the set and monitored use during filming to avoid the sort of injury @urx mentions, or the film production company had to employ an S5 authorised armourer. (I have a vague memory that a GMP Firearms Team sergeant was killed by a shotgun blank being fired at him from very close range while training in a simulated inside-buildings scenario some years ago.) The rifles belonged to a film & TV props company that had gone bust and ended up with an S5 holding RFD who was looking to find an appropriately licensed buyer if possible, but they more likely ended up being deactivated and sold to the general public. This small collection included a pair of 7.5X55mm SIG StG57s - only the Swiss could have made an infantry rifle like this at the beginning of the era of synthetics, steel pressings and stamped parts. A machined work of art but heavy! I felt a lot of respect for Swiss militiamen climbing up and down mountains carrying this beast and a full load-out of GP11 ammo.

 

[gonzo]

Ther barrels of semi auto prop guns are often threaded. They they can screw in an appropriate restricting slug. That will provide enough back pressure for the action to work whilst still allowing a muzzle blast.
They will load the blanks, select the bore restriction and recoil spring based on the type of effect they need to film.

(Watched a pretty good interview with a film/TV armourer recently.)


Damn, Laurie just pipped me to the post with that.

 

[John Gryphon]

never seen a deer doing that !

A couple of years ago I wrote up about a Sambar hind I had shot using 9.3 x 64mm..on impact she did a 360 in her body length,it was quite something to see such a big deer get 'tossed'

Arnie uses real bullets I swear.

 

[Liveonce]

The most unrealistic thing in movies often for me in fire fight scenes is when the gun/rifle is fired and there's absolutely no recoil.

or never ending supply of ammunition in the gun.