FOXES and their control.

Bit like when there is a take out of a mature buck from a vulnerable plantation - all hell starts as the incomers try to vie for the vacant area, much more damage if the mature territorial animal had been left. He's they guy best left to patrol and police the area, to minimise damage. Similarly, the fox will generally keep subordinates out by his territorial marking.
 
Similarly, the fox will generally keep subordinates out by his territorial marking.
Do you honestly believe this? I have never had time to ask a fox it's social standing.I was taught less foxes meant less grouse /gamebirds and other ground nesting birds would be eaten.very surprised to read such a statement.
 
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Bit like when there is a take out of a mature buck from a vulnerable plantation - all hell starts as the incomers try to vie for the vacant area, much more damage if the mature territorial animal had been left. He's they guy best left to patrol and police the area, to minimise damage. Similarly, the fox will generally keep subordinates out by his territorial marking.

I see where you're coming from but deer are a very different ball game, well for a start they don't eat game/ground nesting birds, I don't think leaving a particular fox affects the levels of predation, the overall levels of fox numbers certainly does. captive breeding and subsequent releasing of foxes into the countryside exists, there are many who have witnessed it, I myself have seen a fox from such a release with no fear of humans when homing in on a call stood up and placed both front feet on the vehicle door with the astonished shooter talking to it,! definitely not your average wild fox. flooding areas with non native populations of foxes is bound to cause massive imbalances in the predator/prey ratio. it's not natures way.
 
I remember seeing Coypu in and around every river and stream

Initially as a kid they were quite frightening the first time you saw one. Yes, I remember them too in Lincolnshire in some of the Fens. Second time you saw one they were no longer terrifying at all. Another thing you don't see nowadays are really really big frogs that you once, although quite rarely even then, saw.
 
Initially as a kid they were quite frightening the first time you saw one. Yes, I remember them too in Lincolnshire in some of the Fens. Second time you saw one they were no longer terrifying at all. Another thing you don't see now are really really big frogs that you once saw.


one word, otters, If you frequent waterside areas where otters come ashore to eat prey you may come across piles of frog remains large and small, in addition to the usual half eaten [often less] fish, waterfowl chicks ect. the coypu as I'm sure you were aware was a vegetarian. I for one would trade the coypu for otters in a heartbeat.

again evidence suggests captive breeding and secret releases into areas often incapable of sustaining the numbers released, thus the subsequent damage to natural fish stocks,fisheries, garden ponds, and affecting the balance of everything that previously was in harmony.
 
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one word, otters, If you frequent waterside areas where otters come ashore to eat prey you may come across piles of frog remains large and small, in addition to the usual half eaten [often less] fish, waterfowl chicks ect. the coypu as I'm sure you were aware was a vegetarian. I for one would trade the coypu for otters in a heartbeat.

again evidence suggests captive breeding and secret releases into areas often incapable of sustaining the numbers released, thus the subsequent damage to natural fish stocks,fisheries, garden ponds, and affecting the balance of everything that previously was in harmony.

So what's with you and Tarka? You really don't like Otters do you? :-D
 
So what's with you and Tarka? You really don't like Otters do you? :-D

well,, I was once a specimen angler, and a successful,Carp, catfish, chub, bream, tench, ect ect, many approaching british record size. I had been doing it from early childhood, both father, grandfather, were successful anglers too, occasionally you would see an otter, they were never in such numbers to affect the fish stocks as they have done in the last 15 years or so, I live [and for 3-4 years was the keeper]on a relatively small private estate [around 1000 acres, with a bit more shooting rights adjoined] there are also one lake of approx 5 acres and two smaller ponds, the fishing I controlled as bailiff of an exclusive syndicate as part of my job, then one day I caught but was unable to detain [short of shooting at the van] a group of people releasing otters, It decimated the fish stocks within a week, defra were contacted,they were unhelpful, as were the broads authority, and anyone else, there was a government approved scheme to release otters it wasn't thought out well and there suddenly 100s of them everywhere, many of them with no fear of humans at all, they would swim up and try to steal fish as they were being played. then then took to the various small dykes connecting the lakes,ponds, and surrounding waterways, they just seemed to kill everything and eat very little of the kills, they then arrived at my garden pond over a mile away, [a 7600 gallon pond I had dug by hand some 20 years previously and stocked with carp, tench, orfe, grass carp, and sterlet, and other various fish, some were over a metre in length and would come and take food from your hand. they damaged almost every fish they didn't kill, digging the hole to bury them broke me, my entire plot is fenced, it made little difference they climb well as well as being proficient at digging , my neighbour lost his fish the following week, neither of us have restocked, the way the lakes are situated makes it impossible to erect otter proof fences, then they started on the ducklings even testing the resident swans the penn held the nest and the cobb taking on each otter in turn, without going in to detail I and another intervened, I believe without that intervention the swans would have lost, at the time the fellow who also witnessed it stated,, those swans were fighting for their lives, those otters were having a game with them, a game with deadly consequences for the swans. then they started on game birds, yes I've seen hen pheasants jumped on and drowned by otters, the last straw was when they reached the small partridge pens at various locations around the estate. you have to realise all this was done with total protection by the law. we have no fish in the lake,pond, and my once beautiful pond is now a haven for frogs,newts, and even the odd mallard. the carp were of the "redmire" origin something every carp angler will be aware of , it would cost over a 100k to restock and I suspect the same would happen again. that's not my call I only live/work here. I'm semi retired now, I still shoot over the estate and anywhere else where needed as I have an open ticket. I don't fish any more, its really not worth it around here anymore.
I hope that gives you some idea of my comments regarding otters and I'm really not after any conflict on the forum, If anyone feels against my views strongly as I adhere to them pm me, I'll send you a postcode we can discuss it in more detail in my yard.
 
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well,, I was once a specimen angler, and a successful,Carp, catfish, chub, bream, tench, ect ect, many approaching british record size. I had been doing it from early childhood, both father, grandfather, were successful anglers too, occasionally you would see an otter, they were never in such numbers to affect the fish stocks as they have done in the last 15 years or so, I live [and for 3-4 years was the keeper]on a relatively small private estate [around 1000 acres, with a bit more shooting rights adjoined] there are also one lake of approx 5 acres and two smaller ponds, the fishing I controlled as bailiff of an exclusive syndicate as part of my job, then one day I caught but was unable to detain [short of shooting at the van] a group of people releasing otters, It decimated the fish stocks within a week, defra were contacted,they were unhelpful, as were the broads authority, and anyone else, there was a government approved scheme to release otters it wasn't thought out well and there suddenly 100s of them everywhere, many of them with no fear of humans at all, they would swim up and try to steal fish as they were being played. then then took to the various small dykes connecting the lakes,ponds, and surrounding waterways, they just seemed to kill everything and eat very little of the kills, they then arrived at my garden pond over a mile away, [a 7600 gallon pond I had dug by hand some 20 years previously and stocked with carp, tench, orfe, grass carp, and sterlet, and other various fish, some were over a metre in length and would come and take food from your hand. they damaged almost every fish they didn't kill, digging the hole to bury them broke me, my entire plot is fenced, it made little difference they climb well as well as being proficient at digging , my neighbour lost his fish the following week, neither of us have restocked, the way the lakes are situated makes it impossible to erect otter proof fences, then they started on the ducklings even testing the resident swans the penn held the nest and the cobb taking on each otter in turn, without going in to detail I and another intervened, I believe without that intervention the swans would have lost, at the time the fellow who also witnessed it stated,, those swans were fighting for their lives, those otters were having a game with them, a game with deadly consequences for the swans. then they started on game birds, yes I've seen hen pheasants jump on and drowned by otters, the last straw was when they reached the small partridge pens at various locations around the estate. you have to realise all this was done with total protection by the law. we have no fish in the lake,pond, and my once beautiful pond is now a haven for frogs,newts, and even the odd mallard. the carp were of the "redmire" origin something every carp angler will be aware of , it would cost over a 100k to restock and I suspect the same would happen again. that's not my call I only live/work here. I'm semi retired now, I still shoot over the estate and anywhere else where needed as I have an open ticket. I don't fish any more, its really not worth it around here anymore.
I hope that gives you some idea of my comments regarding otters and I'm really not after any conflict on the forum, If anyone feels against my views strongly as I adhere to them pm me, I'll send you a postcode we can discuss it in more detail in my yard.
I agree with you. There are loads of otters about and they are decimating fisheries. They as you quite rightly pointed out will kill anything they can.
Mink are the same.
They need to be controlled!
 
Should be the same for crows, magpies, jays etc. Gamekeepers don't actually managed the estates like they use to. They put more birds down and hope to get better results.
Managing the wildlife helps all species of wildlife.
You can't have too much vermin and expect to have a thriving wildlife mix.
Regards Dan
 
Thank you danban, I was hoping a few would understand,:thumb:

i understand too mate..i was a carp angler for many years and i know how special the redmire fish are and to think of them ending up chewed up and slaughtered leaves a bad taste in my mouth and me quietly steaming !!!!...Hugh....
 
Thank you danban, I was hoping a few would understand,:thumb:


Hello my friend, I do understand how you feel believe me. For many years (when time etc permitted) I followed Otterhounds each summer.
Unfortunately a disease hit Otters in the 50's observed by Frank Sawyer the great river keeper, and pollution killed a lot more, dieldrin shrivelling ovaries of bitches. As they disappeared off the better rivers Upper Severn, Vyrnwy and upper Teme it was quite upsetting and Otter hunting stopped prior to the final protection. I am quite happy to see them back in some of their former haunts but quite understand your position, they seem to have done well in your part of the country and on the rivers in my region. I have a dog and a bitch with cubs working my two small rivers but at present they are not creating any problems for me. Wouldn't mind a chat in your yard sometime though as the East Anglia meeting seems to have vanished. :thumb:
 
Should be the same for crows, magpies, jays etc. Gamekeepers don't actually managed the estates like they use to. They put more birds down and hope to get better results.
Managing the wildlife helps all species of wildlife.
You can't have too much vermin and expect to have a thriving wildlife mix.
Regards Dan


To true my friend but we are not allowed to manage things objectively anymore. When I was a young lad collecting eggs, it took me three years to get a carrion egg and two for a Maggies egg. Not only Keepers but Farmers as well used to kill every Corvid they saw. How times change, a farm on the next estate that uses vegetable waste as cattle food has a flock of more than 600 Rooks, Jackdaws and Carrions visiting every day. The Farmer couldn't care less as it costs him nothing and the Keeper will never be a Keeper as long as he has a fundamental orifice.( If he lost that and had a Colostomy, he still wouldn't make the grade :D) It really makes you wonder how some get their jobs.
 
Hello my friend, I do understand how you feel believe me. For many years (when time etc permitted) I followed Otterhounds each summer.
Unfortunately a disease hit Otters in the 50's observed by Frank Sawyer the great river keeper, and pollution killed a lot more, dieldrin shrivelling ovaries of bitches. As they disappeared off the better rivers Upper Severn, Vyrnwy and upper Teme it was quite upsetting and Otter hunting stopped prior to the final protection. I am quite happy to see them back in some of their former haunts but quite understand your position, they seem to have done well in your part of the country and on the rivers in my region. I have a dog and a bitch with cubs working my two small rivers but at present they are not creating any problems for me. Wouldn't mind a chat in your yard sometime though as the East Anglia meeting seems to have vanished. :thumb:

if you ever come this way you are very welcome. I hope you like bourbon.:cool:
 
Nah !! You won't hold a candle to "Ayesha" SHE who must be obeyed, she loves a VAT or five and a couple of Firkins. :tiphat:


it's going to be a really interesting visit, my missus can get giggly on a decent trifle, :rofl: Ayesha is a reasonably uncommon name, sort of "exotic" shame she's a little bossy.;)
 
it's going to be a really interesting visit, my missus can get giggly on a decent trifle, :rofl: Ayesha is a reasonably uncommon name, sort of "exotic" shame she's a little bossy.;)

It's a sort of in joke. "SHE" written by H Rider Haggard was called Ayesha. Played by Ursula Undress in the film.
 
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