Foxhounds uninvited appearance

[User00035]

This letter was printed in the Sunday Telegraph today. The references to the shooting of foxes are not only anti-shooting in tone but factually incorrect. If this person's views are typical of the average hunt supporter can anyone explain why we shooters should support hunting?

 

[foxdropper]

His point is that the fox either gets away Scott free and is all the fitter for it or it dies when hunted by hounds unlike gunmen on occasion .
Trying to create division is the mark of a sad individual .

 

[Magnificent 7]

A great deal depends upon your relationship with the hunt. When I was keepering, the local hunt and myself got on really well, even to the extent of comparing shoot/meet days before the season so that there was no clash. That relationship worked really well and we never had a problem.
Many years ago I was doing some work on the shoot and the hounds came through the large wood I was in, it was very interesting to see how the birds reacted, in the main, they either just ran off or flew a very short distance. Within an hour all was back to normal, something, to be honest, I wouldn't have expected.
It's very sad to hear that in some areas the hunt and shoots don't get on, we are all in the countryside and especially in these difficult times surely it pays for anyone involved in country sports to get on, there are enough antis giving us grief without the locals falling out!

Here here well said that man

 

[AGR]

After an initial falling out I always let the hunt through, even helping to plan the route.
Didn't stop me shooting the foxes though, the hunt only one healthy fox for a good run!

 

[foxdropper]

If you think the foxhounds disturbing your pheasants is a problem try having the staghounds coming through your deer farm! You can ban the hunt but it probably won't stop them. Shooting hounds as @VSS says is a good way to get their attention as is shooting the stag before they get to it. Ultimately they will be the authors of their own demise, times are changing and people will not put up with this kind of behaviour for much longer I feel. Mind you that could apply to pheasant shooting too.

You sir have lost sight of the basic reason many of us are in this game .
The hunt is everything whether hounds ,stalking or sat in a seat we are still hunting .To decry another’s sport is the mark of a out of touch person who thinks too highly of himself .
We can all live side by side with some tolerance and dialogue .

 

[308tikka]

You sir have lost sight of the basic reason many of us are in this game .
The hunt is everything whether hounds ,stalking or sat in a seat we are still hunting .To decry another’s sport is the mark of a out of touch person who thinks too highly of himself .
We can all live side by side with some tolerance and dialogue .

Of course we can.

But a hunt riding through land when unwanted and without permission is akin to poaching- how many would tolerate that on their permissions?

Treapass and damage by hunt followers and employees= same as sabs, same as coursers.

 

[VSS]

Of course we can.

But a hunt riding through land when unwanted and without permission is akin to poaching- how many would tolerate that on their permissions?

Treapass and damage by hunt followers and employees= same as sabs, same as coursers.

Spot on.

 

[foxdropper]

Of course we can.

But a hunt riding through land when unwanted and without permission is akin to poaching- how many would tolerate that on their permissions?

Treapass and damage by hunt followers and employees= same as sabs, same as coursers.

Depends on the context and how you feel about hunting .I’ve had years of being involved with hunts then a period of disconnect followed by a renewed interest .I’ve had a rather intimate meeting with hounds whilst digging a fox years ago on permission but that’s another story .Personally I’d be watching the hounds work ,they won’t dwell long unless the fox has gone to ground .Different takes on what construes poaching mate and a tolerance for fellow countrymen .
Your hatred for coursers might well be justified but think on that it was only the stroke of a pen that outlawed that mans way of life ,same can happen to yours in a heart beat .

 

[stevec]

His point is that the fox either gets away Scott free and is all the fitter for it or it dies when hunted by hounds unlike gunmen on occasion .
Trying to create division is the mark of a sad individual .

I have seen countless shots at foxes with No. 6 shot on driven days, the majority of which ran on. I think the issue with wounding foxes is more to do with shotguns rather than rifles and at least hunting was cut and dry, as with the majority of rifle shots.

Thankfully our experience of the foxhounds here has been very positive. Everyone has been kind and courteous towards me, both as a tenant and landowner. We farm in three different hunt countries and always get a visit before they intend to come on and often a quick drive around with the huntsman to explain any areas to avoid or a phone call or email if they are planning to be in the area. Never had any problems with crop damage or anything else being damaged. I think we are very lucky here by the sounds of what is going on elsewhere.

Anyone who has seen any animal hung up in barbed wire will appreciate the need for wire clippers. I wish I had a set with me last year when a cow jumped in to a hedge. Was a horrible experience.

 

[308tikka]

Depends on the context and how you feel about hunting .I’ve had years of being involved with hunts then a period of disconnect followed by a renewed interest .I’ve had a rather intimate meeting with hounds whilst digging a fox years ago on permission but that’s another story .Personally I’d be watching the hounds work ,they won’t dwell long unless the fox has gone to ground .Different takes on what construes poaching mate and a tolerance for fellow countrymen .
Your hatred for coursers might well be justified but think on that it was only the stroke of a pen that outlawed that mans way of life ,same can happen to yours in a heart beat .

I dont hate coursers. I dont hate the community largely responsible.

But neither they, or the hunts-allegedly respectable people-are above the law and respect for others property.

 

[User00035]

It doesn't matter what your chosen sport/activity/country pursuit might be. If you undertake it on someone else's land without permission or in defiance of revoked permission; if you disregard the landowners wishes or the rules on which your permission is contingent; if you damage his property, disturb his livestock, refuse to coordinate and cooperate with other people who have been granted lawful access to that land and disrupt their business; if you make a nuisance of yourself to tenants, local residents and members of the public and demonstrate casual discourtesy to all around you who are not involved with your activity, you are a menace to the rural community and bring the entire established order into disrepute.

Maybe I've been unlucky - I'm entirely supportive in principle of fox hunting and hunting with dogs in general, and I'm always gratified to hear of conscientious and responsible hunts (I know good ones exist and they aren't all bad), but unfortunately every mounted fox hunt I've ever come into prolonged contact with has committed all of the above offences, and defending such behaviour isn't "standing together", it's complicity. It doesn't protect your own way of life from abolition by our collective political enemies, it makes it more likely.

 

[foxdropper]

Total agreement mate .I feel we are talking of two levels of hunt activity .
Drawing a covert off country or where they arnt welcome would be a huge no no for me BUT hunting a fox unintentionally ,skirting across next door is hardly a problem unless damage is done doing so .Yes ,some hunt followers and staff can be arrogant but so can shooters I’ve found ..,in fact they can be found in all walks of life .
The total disregard for property thing confuses me as I’ve not found that to be so .
The only time I’ve seen hounds off piste was when I was a beat keeper in the Cotswolds and hounds trailed a fox right through centre of the estate no huntstaff or field , to be picked up other side after they killed .
The head keeper was very relaxed about it .
If in lamb ewes are pressured I know it’s a problem with aborting .
I guess the tolerance thing is based solely on personal dealings .

 

[foxdropper]

It’s refreshing not to read they are breaking the law and should be stopped .Does show a tolerance of sorts .

 

[Rhodesianjess]

Update to my original post everyone.
Shot on Saturday, included two of the woods that the hounds drew. Found two muntjac in one,one in the other. You never seen such a sight,all three torn to pieces. It honestly looked like a pack of hyena had pulled them to pieces.
All surrounded by dog prints of foxhound size. Boss inspected them after I blew up for end of drive,his face was a picture. Then repeated when we found the single one two drives later.
Suffice to say, I honestly think that's the last time the hounds will be allowed on us, prior arrangement or just running on.
Will post his decision once he's told me the outcome of his meeting with them, presumably backed up by the pictures he took on his phone of the deer,the flattened gamecover with hoofprints everywhere, the rides with hoofprints churning them up, quad bike tracks through gamecover and along rides, the list goes on.

 

[Bo Diddley]

Update to my original post everyone.
Shot on Saturday, included two of the woods that the hounds drew. Found two muntjac in one,one in the other. You never seen such a sight,all three torn to pieces. It honestly looked like a pack of hyena had pulled them to pieces.
All surrounded by dog prints of foxhound size. Boss inspected them after I blew up for end of drive,his face was a picture. Then repeated when we found the single one two drives later.
Suffice to say, I honestly think that's the last time the hounds will be allowed on us, prior arrangement or just running on.
Will post his decision once he's told me the outcome of his meeting with them, presumably backed up by the pictures he took on his phone of the deer,the flattened gamecover with hoofprints everywhere, the rides with hoofprints churning them up, quad bike tracks through gamecover and along rides, the list goes on.

Such a shame, this seems to be a conflict between two giants in the field sports arena, hunting & large scale pheasant shoots, probably the only choice you have is to go and have a face to face meeting with the Master and spell it out in very basic language, probably best to have as many of the people who are running the hunt at the same meeting, then there is no confusion on their part! Good luck....

 

[Ratel]

Sorry to hear what happened with you Jess but you really must have a bad hunt in your area. I worked on estates on the Cotswolds and on all three we had both Roe and Muntjac. There were three different packs hunted the boundaries of their country where I worked on two of the estates. I worked well with all three as bosses were hunting men, as was I. I must say in those days the Heythrop, the North Cotswolds and the Warwickshire were good to work with.
I never saw a deer hunted or killed and in that area were hundreds of Muntjac and s great many Roe. I have seen more than once a tame deer in the grass yards at hunt kennels, this is to stop the puppies rioting on deer when taken hunting and always seemed sensible. I have heard that a goat can serve the same purpose but never seen it.
We have (or rather the boss has) banned our local foxhounds for bad behaviour but we still have the Bassets to hunt s rabbit or two.

 

[willie_gunn]

We have (or rather the boss has) banned our local foxhounds for bad behaviour but we still have the Bassets to hunt s rabbit or two.

Not the Albany & West Lodge by any chance?

They used to come down to Kent and hunt our country (by invitation!). Loved listening to them when they were hunting the line of a hare.

 

[norcan]

Wow. I've never been so disappointed in our ruling class of dimwitted inbred sex criminals.

 

[VSS]

It doesn't matter what your chosen sport/activity/country pursuit might be. If you undertake it on someone else's land without permission or in defiance of revoked permission; if you disregard the landowners wishes or the rules on which your permission is contingent; if you damage his property, disturb his livestock, refuse to coordinate and cooperate with other people who have been granted lawful access to that land and disrupt their business; if you make a nuisance of yourself to tenants, local residents and members of the public and demonstrate casual discourtesy to all around you who are not involved with your activity, you are a menace to the rural community and bring the entire established order into disrepute.

Maybe I've been unlucky - I'm entirely supportive in principle of fox hunting and hunting with dogs in general, and I'm always gratified to hear of conscientious and responsible hunts (I know good ones exist and they aren't all bad), but unfortunately every mounted fox hunt I've ever come into prolonged contact with has committed all of the above offences, and defending such behaviour isn't "standing together", it's complicity. It doesn't protect your own way of life from abolition by our collective political enemies, it makes it more likely.

Good post^^^^

 

[gerarddwatts]

Wow. I've never been so disappointed in our ruling class of dimwitted inbred sex criminals.

Thank you for your contribution. Don't really understand it, or the point you are trying to make, but thank you anyway.

If a muntjac has been chopped by a hound and its dead body subsequently broken up, then there is something wrong. Any fox hound that is not steady to deer has no place in a pack.