Front clip on thermals

[happyhunt]

Thinking of getting a front clip on thermal for occasional use
Are they as good as a dedicated thermal scope
Do they hold zero
Why do you have to zero to the scope when your already looking through the scopes cross hairs
Seems to be a lot of different stories out there
Cheers for any info/help

 

[hammo]

Nightmare as has to be perfectly aligned or reticle will be off target.

 

[HonestJohn]

Buy the thermtec hunt pro 650. Awesome kit. Ask @hairlesshunter

 

[Bugsy]

Nightmare as has to be perfectly aligned or reticle will be off target.

TBH Hammo I shot with a Krypton for years on my rifle and never had a zero problem , I did although set it up properly when fitting to the scope . I was shooting Red out to 300 and always checked where I had shot the beast in relation to where I aimed so I can’t say anything about zeroing problems and still have mine as a back up .

 

[Bugsy]

Why do you have to zero to the scope

This is what I could never get my head round I fitted mine and shot and never had a problem , if your looking through a scope through the thermal add-on your reticle shows on the thermal so how can you zero the thermal to the scope .. I was totally baffled

 

[Dave_45]

Was also thinking about one but heard of nothing but zero holding problems.


I like the idea of glass and an add on

 

[Bugsy]

And before any one starts .. I used it for foxes for years then when they became legal I used it on deer .

 

[RCS Deer Management]

I shot a krypton for several seasons. They hold zero fine if you are careful with them and they are tightened well. The return to zero on mine wasn’t perfect for taking on/off but you can get pretty good at it if you know what you are doing. The krypton 2 has solved this problem by having an aligning reticule in the unit so you can check that it has been re fitted in line. I now have a dedicated thermal scope in quick release rings. I can swap between the thermal and day scopes on my rifle with complete confidence now, so that’s the route I would recommend.

 

[RCS Deer Management]

This is what I could never get my head round I fitted mine and shot and never had a problem , if your looking through a scope through the thermal add-on your reticle shows on the thermal so how can you zero the thermal to the scope .. I was totally baffled

If you cant/angle the unit differently on the front of the scope it moves the image in front of the reticule, moving your zero by feet, not just inches. Front add on units definitely need zeroing to your scope and then keeping in perfect consistent alignment whilst removing and re fitting

 

[Bugsy]

Yes I believe the K 2 was a bit easier to set up but I honestly never had a problem .

 

[hammo]

TBH Hammo I shot with a Krypton for years on my rifle and never had a zero problem , I did although set it up properly when fitting to the scope . I was shooting Red out to 300 and always checked where I had shot the beast in relation to where I aimed so I can’t say anything about zeroing problems and still have mine as a back up .

If the alignment is dead on axis then all good. But the one I tried a Pulsar i think - had a collimator function where you had to basically re-zero to allow for the mis-aligned add on. Also when zooming in the scope you are just zooming in to the thermal image screen, so limited clarity.
Maybe things have improved, but I think dedicated thermal scope would be best route to take. Just my experience.

 

[Bugsy]

If you cant/angle the unit differently on the front of the scope it moves the image in front of the reticule, moving your zero by feet, not just inches. Front add on units definitely need zeroing to your scope and then keeping in perfect consistent alignment whilst removing and re fitting

Yip , that’s the bit that baffled me

 

[Bugsy]

If the alignment is dead on axis then all good. But the one I tried a Pulsar i think - had a collimator function where you had to basically re-zero to allow for the mis-aligned add on. Also when zooming in the scope you are just zooming in to the thermal image screen, so limited clarity.
Maybe things have improved, but I think dedicated thermal scope would be best route to take. Just my experience.

There’s that many thermal scopes and add-ons nowadays it’s brain draining , I do have a dedicated thermal scope on my 223 for vermin and wouldn’t go past it. Tried NV for foxes but it just wasn’t quick enough for me to pick out vermin in rashes or tall grass so the NV is on the pigeon killer air rifle .

 

[happyhunt]

It's all a bit baffling to me aswell
Probably not a good idea getting one then
Cheers for replying

 

[hairlesshunter]

It's all a bit baffling to me aswell
Probably not a good idea getting one then
Cheers for replying

Hi Happyhunt I have had a Thermtec hunt pro for around 8/9 weeks now and like you I was very unsure about the clip-on units.
But to be honest I have been very impressed.
I did a video on how to zero it which wasn’t the best but at the end it showed that if you don’t put the clip-on on correctly the zero did move .
But it was all down to me trying to clip it back on one handed while videoing .
When I did fit it back correctly it retained its zero and has since
I think if you have a few glass scope fitted to different guns their a no brainier
Another thing to consider is they do tend to work better with lower end scopes like Hawke
Hope this helps your decision
cheers
Craig

 

[wytonpjs]

I'm using Rusan adapters on 3 CF rifles, all onto Swaro scopes with a Hik Thunder 3 clip-on. Having zero'd separate profiles in the Thunder for those rifles at 100m, I've been keeping its use to modest ranges and its been VERY effective. All seem to "return to zero" perfectly every time they are mounted.

When I thought about going down this route, I asked the same question as the OP @happyhunt from the late MealieJimmy - this was Bruce's reply:



Subsequent to this, I set up the Reference Line in the scope on one profile (it was significantly off to one side) and that has proved to be no different across all 3 rifles in each of the profiles.

I'm now resolutely of the opposite position that the clip-on "zero" must be checked and set to the scope crosshairs as in processing the digital data from the sensor to the clip-on's screen, some movement of the image is likely. That, like the LRF boxes on Alpex, will vary somewhat between devices of the same make as well as differences between other manufacture's devices.

 

[Donkey Basher]

So basically, if I’ve understood this correctly, your glass scope gets zeroed & puts the reticle into position mechanically so that the bullet hits what you see in real life.

Then you place a clip on thermal on the front which places a small flat screen in front of the glass. The scopes reticle is then seen in front of whatever picture is shown on that screen, which means that the target on the screen must then be perfectly in front of the reticle. If it is then the bullet will hit where the reticle is seen.

‘Zeroing’ the reticle is basically moving the image seen on the screen so that it is correctly aligned with the reticle in the scope.

Now provided you can remove & refit the add on with absolute repeatability the image seen will always be in the correct place.

However, if the add on gets put back on slightly skewed to one side or the other the image will not be in the correct place. So, for example, if the add on is skewed slightly to the left then the reticle will sit off to the right of the centre of the image.

This is where basic trig comes in as a very small error between the alignment of the add on which is maybe 6” ahead of the reticle will translate to a very significant error between where the reticle is placed on the image compared to where the bullet lands at 100 yards.

I can now understand why there would be an ‘index’ mark available on the add on screen that you can check the unit is properly aligned on the scope each time it’s used.

 

[wytonpjs]

So basically, if I’ve understood this correctly, your glass scope gets zeroed & puts the reticle into position mechanically so that the bullet hits what you see in real life.

Then you place a clip on thermal on the front which places a small flat screen in front of the glass. The scopes reticle is then seen in front of whatever picture is shown on that screen, which means that the target on the screen must then be perfectly in front of the reticle. If it is then the bullet will hit where the reticle is seen. Correct

‘Zeroing’ the reticle is basically moving the image seen on the screen so that it is correctly aligned with the reticle in the scope. Yes

Now provided you can remove & refit the add on with absolute repeatability the image seen will always be in the correct place. Yes

However, if the add on gets put back on slightly skewed to one side or the other the image will not be in the correct place. So, for example, if the add on is skewed slightly to the left then the reticle will sit off to the right of the centre of the image. Yes

This is where basic trig comes in as a very small error between the alignment of the add on which is maybe 6” ahead of the reticle will translate to a very significant error between where the reticle is placed on the image compared to where the bullet lands at 100 yards.

I can now understand why there would be an ‘index’ mark available on the add on screen that you can check the unit is properly aligned on the scope each time it’s used. Not necessary

Spot on. I believe repeatability was an issue with early mounts but current "modular" offerings such as the Rusan adapters and mounts are significantly better. I leave the female portion of the adapter permanently mounted onto the scopes (I have 3 - one fitted to each CF rifle I use the clip-on with) - this does mean that my nice (expensive) Swaro obj covers are removed but as I carry muzzle down, this isn't an issue. The male portion of the Rusan adapter is mechanically tightened against the clip-on's thread (only one adapter needed) and is bombproof, hence when marrying up the 2 and rotating the locking lever, it cams the thermal always into the same position. Having set up the Reference Line in each of the 3 profiles to allow for issues between the different scope adapter sections, each profile matches that particular adapter and mount. I did check the Reference Line after every mounting when I first got the clip-on, but no longer do this every time as its simply not necessary. Hope that helps?

 

[bbell]

I shot a krypton for several seasons. They hold zero fine if you are careful with them and they are tightened well. The return to zero on mine wasn’t perfect for taking on/off but you can get pretty good at it if you know what you are doing. The krypton 2 has solved this problem by having an aligning reticule in the unit so you can check that it has been re fitted in line. I now have a dedicated thermal scope in quick release rings. I can swap between the thermal and day scopes on my rifle with complete confidence now, so that’s the route I would recommend.

What QR rings did you go with? I like the idea of being able to swap but would be hesitant without some change testing

 

[prometheus]

Thinking of getting a front clip on thermal for occasional use
Are they as good as a dedicated thermal scope
Do they hold zero
Why do you have to zero to the scope when your already looking through the scopes cross hairs
Seems to be a lot of different stories out there
Cheers for any info/help

I bought a new Krypton 2 FXG50 back in October with a 56 and 50mm mounting ring with the intention of switching rifles for different tasks. I had no issue setting up for zero, in fact i found it quite straight forward. I also found it to be an excellent bit of kit that has really enhanced my management capabilities. In fact I was so pleased with what it could do I had a look at the Thermion 2 XL60 and then had to have one it is another level. I have swing off mounts so can switch scopes between glass and thermal in seconds and there is no looking back. I will be getting around selling my Krypton shortly which has only been used about 5 times but has a 100% success record with no issues on my scopes zero ( I have only used it on a S&B 56 2.5-10) I just have a fox to take down with a .243 first. The Thermion is going on a bigger cal.