Generic Thermal imager Question - OG XQ38F versus modern

[Cottis]

Keep thinking about upgrading thermal. I have used the same first edition XQ38f Helion thing for many years. Not sure how many, maybe 6 or 7. Cannot remember but it has never faltered apart from the odd freeze no more than a handful of times over the years. It owes me nothing and has been great and still works the same as the day I got it other than the battery charged clip thing doesn't work anymore and I couldn't be bothered to replace it, so I just charge it now with the battery in situ. No dramas.

I can absolutely see the appeal of a range finder within a thermal. I don't use an RF on my binos as the pure optical performance is not as good as non LRF and I prefer a smaller more ergonomic bino and that is not a compromise I am willing to make.

So I suppose the question is really what sort of performance improvements can be had imaging wise with the modern stuff relative to price. Say in terms of the modern stuff, how does the old XQ38f compare to a £1500 thermal, a £2500 thermal or even higher if they exist. I really have no idea.

The XQ38f certainly shows up heat signatures out to distances beyond what I really need and I like having a low base mag and would certainly not want anything more than the x3 mag or whatever the XQ38f is. If the image is not really going to be signnificantly better, then I don't see the point of upgrading but if I could get a much better image and overall performance, coupled with the added bonus of an LRF and the longevity and reliability of the Pulsar I have, I could see that being worth a coupla grand or more to me for the next handful of years.

Thoughts welcome and a nod to Bruce who no doubt would have been able to immediately wax lyrical about this. I know there are tons of threads on thermals but I imagine loads of people are like me who are still using an early thermal which really does all they need and the XQ38f is clearly a decent unit that has stood the test of time but time also waits for no man. I imagine I am using pretty ancient tech when much better stuff is likely available.

 

[Mike1979]

I have an XQ38F and like you it does everything I need and will continue to do so until it breaks...at which point it will be replaced. Detection range is good, ID is good so not really sure what more you need

 

[Tim.243]

Keep thinking about upgrading thermal. I have used the same first edition XQ38f Helion thing for many years. Not sure how many, maybe 6 or 7. Cannot remember but it has never faltered apart from the odd freeze no more than a handful of times over the years. It owes me nothing and has been great and still works the same as the day I got it other than the battery charged clip thing doesn't work anymore and I couldn't be bothered to replace it, so I just charge it now with the battery in situ. No dramas.

I can absolutely see the appeal of a range finder within a thermal. I don't use an RF on my binos as the pure optical performance is not as good as non LRF and I prefer a smaller more ergonomic bino and that is not a compromise I am willing to make.

So I suppose the question is really what sort of performance improvements can be had imaging wise with the modern stuff relative to price. Say in terms of the modern stuff, how does the old XQ38f compare to a £1500 thermal, a £2500 thermal or even higher if they exist. I really have no idea.

The XQ38f certainly shows up heat signatures out to distances beyond what I really need and I like having a low base mag and would certainly not want anything more than the x3 mag or whatever the XQ38f is. If the image is not really going to be signnificantly better, then I don't see the point of upgrading but if I could get a much better image and overall performance, coupled with the added bonus of an LRF and the longevity and reliability of the Pulsar I have, I could see that being worth a coupla grand or more to me for the next handful of years.

Thoughts welcome and a nod to Bruce who no doubt would have been able to immediately wax lyrical about this. I know there are tons of threads on thermals but I imagine loads of people are like me who are still using an early thermal which really does all they need and the XQ38f is clearly a decent unit that has stood the test of time but time also waits for no man. I imagine I am using pretty ancient tech when much better stuff is likely available.

I have 2 with the second one being a gift from a chap who upgraded (because he can) as I shot 49 muntjac from his block of ground in 8 months.
Re the RF side of things, personally if you know your ground then you will be in the ballpark for distance.
One field with Fallow they sometimes come "out the top part" It is best part of 600yds so I get out of the h/seat and make my way closer under 200 to the point if I push more they will leg it so I stop and take one on.
Easy to over egg the pudding !

 

[Cottis]

I have an XQ38F and like you it does everything I need and will continue to do so until it breaks...at which point it will be replaced. Detection range is good, ID is good so not really sure what more you need

Yeah agreed and whilst I am not allergic to money, i can see some value in replacement if I could get a significant uplift in performance AND an LRF. But really I am probably just trying to find a way to spend money that doesn't need spending.

 

[The Singing Stalker]

With a more modern unit, you should be able to identify what it is you are looking at easier as it will not be a blob of white.
Basically, it will be better with a bigger screen to reduce strain on your eyes.
I have upgraded twice, once from 1.2kilo brick to a 500g turd shaped device. Loads better,
Last year I upgraded again to the latest greatest and now I am back to a brick, but with day night thermal and rangefinder in one and the image is superb. My wallet cried a lot.

Is it worth it?
Only you can decide if you want to upgrade.
Shooting show next month,

 

[Drum123]

I have an xq38f , had it for a long time now , this year I finally got fed up with been able to see heat source but not been able to Id accurately. If I was just shooting deer I'd have been content to stick with it but fox / cat / lamb / hare , sheep's head above soft rush , horse looking over a hedge etc all became hard to differentiate at range so I upgraded .
For me it's been worth it.

 

[Tim.243]

I have an xq38f , had it for a long time now , this year I finally got fed up with been able to see heat source but not been able to Id accurately. If I was just shooting deer I'd have been content to stick with it but fox / cat / lamb / hare , sheep's head above soft rush , horse looking over a hedge etc all became hard to differentiate at range so I upgraded .
For me it's been worth it.

300 yds there is only 1 answer ID
xq38


350yds not muntjac



Muntjac

 

[Border]

I bought my first thermal spotter before Xmas. On a black friday deal and in range of my budget.
Pulsar Axion XQ19. Light and compact. Does the job. A comparison.

 

[Pellet Pinger]

Keep thinking about upgrading thermal. I have used the same first edition XQ38f Helion thing for many years. Not sure how many, maybe 6 or 7. Cannot remember but it has never faltered apart from the odd freeze no more than a handful of times over the years. It owes me nothing and has been great and still works the same as the day I got it other than the battery charged clip thing doesn't work anymore and I couldn't be bothered to replace it, so I just charge it now with the battery in situ. No dramas.

I can absolutely see the appeal of a range finder within a thermal. I don't use an RF on my binos as the pure optical performance is not as good as non LRF and I prefer a smaller more ergonomic bino and that is not a compromise I am willing to make.

So I suppose the question is really what sort of performance improvements can be had imaging wise with the modern stuff relative to price. Say in terms of the modern stuff, how does the old XQ38f compare to a £1500 thermal, a £2500 thermal or even higher if they exist. I really have no idea.

The XQ38f certainly shows up heat signatures out to distances beyond what I really need and I like having a low base mag and would certainly not want anything more than the x3 mag or whatever the XQ38f is. If the image is not really going to be signnificantly better, then I don't see the point of upgrading but if I could get a much better image and overall performance, coupled with the added bonus of an LRF and the longevity and reliability of the Pulsar I have, I could see that being worth a coupla grand or more to me for the next handful of years.

Thoughts welcome and a nod to Bruce who no doubt would have been able to immediately wax lyrical about this. I know there are tons of threads on thermals but I imagine loads of people are like me who are still using an early thermal which really does all they need and the XQ38f is clearly a decent unit that has stood the test of time but time also waits for no man. I imagine I am using pretty ancient tech when much better stuff is likely available.

If you have the moolah its a no brainer, i’ve had 2 Pulsars one had LRF and a year ago bought a HIK Condor CQ35L, it’s literally like someone has turned the lights on when i go out.
Not only do you have a better detection range and ID the detail and clarity is so much better, no longer am i walking round lookng at a fuzzy background and no sense of my surroundings, plus you get the LRF thrown in too, its just a much better experience.
Heres a few clips cobbled together.

 

[Cottis]

If you have the moolah its a no brainer, i’ve had 2 Pulsars one had LRF and a year ago bought a HIK Condor CQ35L, it’s literally like someone has turned the lights on when i go out.
Not only do you have a better detection range and ID the detail and clarity is so much better, no longer am i walking round lookng at a fuzzy background and no sense of my surroundings, plus you get the LRF thrown in too, its just a much better experience.
Heres a few clips cobbled together.

Crikey that is good. So much detail in the background. That is less than £1700 from Blackwoods, i just looked. Impressive. Looks like it used those little batteries I use in my laser IR torch. How long do they last for before you need to stick another one in? Thanks for that video, that is the sort of real world info i was looking for.

 

[Bo Diddley]

If you have the moolah its a no brainer, i’ve had 2 Pulsars one had LRF and a year ago bought a HIK Condor CQ35L, it’s literally like someone has turned the lights on when i go out.
Not only do you have a better detection range and ID the detail and clarity is so much better, no longer am i walking round lookng at a fuzzy background and no sense of my surroundings, plus you get the LRF thrown in too, its just a much better experience.
Heres a few clips cobbled together.

So, you got fed up with your Pulsar XG35lrf then??

 

[Pellet Pinger]

Crikey that is good. So much detail in the background. That is less than £1700 from Blackwoods, i just looked. Impressive. Looks like it used those little batteries I use in my laser IR torch. How long do they last for before you need to stick another one in? Thanks for that video, that is the sort of real world info i was looking for.

3 1/2 to 4 hours is about the max, thats with it permanently on, carrying a spare battery for a potential swap in the field isn’t an issue for me, another good feature is the screen auto shut off so once you take it away from your eye and lower it the screen shuts down and doesn’t light you up when walking or have the gun on sticks for the shot.

 

[Pellet Pinger]

So, you got fed up with your Pulsar XG35lrf then??

I had the XQ38LRF, not on the same page as the HIK imho.

 

[Eric the Red]

In its day, the Helion XQ38 was without doubt the best bang for buck thermal spotter on the market. It certainly still holds its own, but technology has moved on significantly in all areas and you will have an equally significant upgrade in your overall experience. I'd also comment that the RRP for the XQ38 was in the order of £2200. These days you will have a chunk of change from a far higher spec item from that sum - as you have already clocked. Every manufacturer has an offering of the following, which I'd recommend as a spec point of view:

640 sensor (so significantly larger and smoother image than your 388). I personally do not see the value in the latest spec 1024/1280 sensors becoming available.
12mu pixel size (v your 17mu, so again a finer picture as shown in the video above)
c. 20mK NETD (v 40+ mK in the XQ - so twice as sensitive to show temperature differences in your image, giving better clarity in poorer conditions)

They will all have a c.2.5x base mag as a result of the above and the ability to mag higher before serious pixelation.
All have pros and cons on body design, so that is personal choice, as are the like or dislike of the way the software operates. Avoid internal battery only - be mindful that the proprietary batteries can be more expensive
An LRF is a gamechanger and most will have in-built ballistics if you want to programme the data in for FFP corrections - nice to haves but all part of the experience. Some of the rangefinders can be fernickety to get reliable readings from.
All have detection ranges way beyond normal use, and ID is improved with the more detailed image, but still not infallible; good knowledge of behaviour and habitat remains vital in that area.

Personally, I get more from a 50mm lens than a 35 and prefer the slight compromise on weight, especially as they are all much more handheld and pocketable these days, but a 35mm lens still produces a good picture.

I have been playing with the Pulsar Oryx XG35 LRF recently and think it is a fine thing for the money, much as I will stick to my Telos.

 

[Cottis]

In its day, the Helion XQ38 was without doubt the best bang for buck thermal spotter on the market. It certainly still holds its own, but technology has moved on significantly in all areas and you will have an equally significant upgrade in your overall experience. I'd also comment that the RRP for the XQ38 was in the order of £2200. These days you will have a chunk of change from a far higher spec item from that sum - as you have already clocked. Every manufacturer has an offering of the following, which I'd recommend as a spec point of view:

640 sensor (so significantly larger and smoother image than your 388). I personally do not see the value in the latest spec 1024/1280 sensors becoming available.
12mu pixel size (v your 17mu, so again a finer picture as shown in the video above)
c. 20mK NETD (v 40+ mK in the XQ - so twice as sensitive to show temperature differences in your image, giving better clarity in poorer conditions)

They will all have a c.2.5x base mag as a result of the above and the ability to mag higher before serious pixelation.
All have pros and cons on body design, so that is personal choice, as are the like or dislike of the way the software operates. Avoid internal battery only - be mindful that the proprietary batteries can be more expensive
An LRF is a gamechanger and most will have in-built ballistics if you want to programme the data in for FFP corrections - nice to haves but all part of the experience. Some of the rangefinders can be fernickety to get reliable readings from.
All have detection ranges way beyond normal use, and ID is improved with the more detailed image, but still not infallible; good knowledge of behaviour and habitat remains vital in that area.

Personally, I get more from a 50mm lens than a 35 and prefer the slight compromise on weight, especially as they are all much more handheld and pocketable these days, but a 35mm lens still produces a good picture.

I have been playing with the Pulsar Oryx XG35 LRF recently and think it is a fine thing for the money, much as I will stick to my Telos.

Thank you, that is really helpful. I think I kinda lost track of how long i've had my thermal. It makes sense that things have improved so much and that it will potentially cost less than what I paid all those years ago.

I think if it were just pure image, I would likely stay with what I have as i feel it works fine but when I consider the benefit of an RF alongside the significant peformance improvement, I think I can see a purchase coming on. I think the sort of cucumber shaped ones appeal to me better from what I can see but they seem to be a bit more money for the best processors and lenses but over a long time, they really are very good and pay for themselves.

More research needed and will get on Youtube and start reviewing the items I am shortlisting.

Thanks again.

 

[Mike1979]

Thank you, that is really helpful. I think I kinda lost track of how long i've had my thermal. It makes sense that things have improved so much and that it will potentially cost less than what I paid all those years ago.

I think if it were just pure image, I would likely stay with what I have as i feel it works fine but when I consider the benefit of an RF alongside the significant peformance improvement, I think I can see a purchase coming on. I think the sort of cucumber shaped ones appeal to me better from what I can see but they seem to be a bit more money for the best processors and lenses but over a long time, they really are very good and pay for themselves.

More research needed and will get on Youtube and start reviewing the items I am shortlisting.

Thanks again.

Looks like you have an itch you need to scratch so crack on and buy a nice new toy