HO clubs - is this usual?

[BeerHunter]

Having no experience of rifle clubs I was looking into membership of one near me. Reading through the joining process, however, my interest has very quickly evaporated. Is this typical of HO clubs?

Initial enquiry
'Preliminary paperwork' (whatever that entails)
Then a formal invitation to visit the range (no shooting)
2 signed references
2 passport photographs
Police background checks
Second formal visit
Third formal visit, with a safety briefing before being allowed to shoot (being allowed one round at a time)
Clay shoot (unless you don't have a SGC)
Then a formal interview in front of a committee, and six months probation if you pass, during which you're expected to attend no less than six formal club events or fall foul of the 'committee' and be expected to explain yourself.

Now, perhaps it's my advancing years, but my immediate response to reading all this was 'You can shove it'.

An old thread I know... I was searching for something else on the internet and found this by accident.
As the secretary of the club in question, I felt I needed to respond.

Running a shooting club in the UK is an onerous task, with the committee members personally responsible for everything that takes place on the range. One slip-up could see us in court with disastrous personal consequences.
We "volunteer" (really we are press-ganged!) to run the club for the good of all members and aim to do so as safely as possible, while maximising both the facilities available and everyones enjoyment. To do this in an increasingly litigious and regulated world is not easy! The work involved is many, many hours per month without payment, favour, or in most cases any thanks.

As well as being a target shooter, I'm also a stalker, fox shooter and vermin controller on my own land as well as others. With that background, I can see why you may think the above process is way over the top - it's so much easier to gain a "permission", get your FAC and just go out and kill things!

The mail you paraphrase from above will have been sent to you by the club membership secretary (not me) and does indeed roughly outline the joining process. Let me explain each step:

1. "'Preliminary paperwork' (whatever that entails)" - this would be the potential member form. Usual stuff of name and address etc. We are legally required to collect this information. Being GDPR compliant, we only collect the minimum information necessary and it would have taken you 1 minute to complete.
2. "Then a formal invitation to visit the range (no shooting)" - yes, we want to meet you, understand your interest in our club and your shooting ambitions. Honestly, also to see if you are a good fit for us. We are a private club and can choose who we want to join. With regards the no shooting rule - would you allow 'Joe Smith' just to rock up from nothing more than an e-mail and be handed a gun? That would simply be irresponsible!
3. "2 signed references" + "2 passport photographs" + "Police background checks" - required only before your 2nd visit if you feel the club is right for you and you are right for the club. Again, we are legally required to collect this and and share it with Police Scotland. We await feedback from Police Scotland at this point who would warn us if you are not suitable to use firearms.
4. "Second formal visit" - at this point you may shoot. For those who have never shot before, this would indeed be rounds single loaded until the RCO and 1-2-1 mentor felt they could be trusted. You would be surprised just how many 1st time shots start waving the muzzle around on their first day! For those who already have an FAC or can demonstrate a degree of pervious shooting experience, they would move on to a full magazine in pretty short order. Safety first, always.
5. "Third formal visit, with a safety briefing before being allowed to shoot (being allowed one round at a time)" - this was either picked up incorrectly, or described incorrectly. As a potential member for the third and fourth visit, you would still be mentored 1-2-1, but able to shoot with a full magazine as long as it was felt safe to let you do so. There is a range brief each and every time we shoot.
6. At this point, you have made no financial commitment to the club - effectively you have been our guest. After your 4th visit, you should have go a good grasp of what we do and, if we are both right for one another, you would be invited to join as a probationary member.
7. "Then a formal interview in front of a committee, and six months probation if you pass, during which you're expected to attend no less than six formal club events or fall foul of the 'committee' and be expected to explain yourself." - I'm not sure where this came from and if it was from the membership secretary, I'll have a word! There is no formal interview, we do this via informal chats during shoot days. As a probationary member, you must take the NRA training course and some exams which qualifies you as a full member and grants you the SCC card mandated by the MOD for some of the ranges we use. This typically takes about 6 months, but can be completed in 3. It's a legal requirement not to issue an SCC card before 3 months and successful training completion.
8. "Clay shoot (unless you don't have a SGC)" - our club has its own clay range. A stipulation of our club insurance is that all shotgun shooters have their own SGC. This is not the case for firearms surprisingly.

Your response of 'You can shove it' is actually exactly what we are looking for. The whole membership process is a total pain, and we don't do it for fun, I can tell you. However, explaining the process up front does enable us to sort the wheat from the chaff - i.e. at the earliest possible stage dissuade those who would not follow it through. I do know of many clubs that approach the process differently and are perhaps more "inviting" of new members. Ultimately they have to follow the same process / legal requirements and I know they have a great many dropouts in the probationary period. We don't want to waste your time any more than we want our time wasted in partially training someone.

The membership process is beautifully illustrated in a flowchart on our website - Join AAFBGC. Had you bothered to read this before you contacted us via the same website, none of this would have been a surprise to you.

I hope you found a club more suitable to your needs.

ATB,
Beerhunter.

 

[Namman]

An old thread I know... I was searching for something else on the internet and found this by accident.
As the secretary of the club in question, I felt I needed to respond.

Running a shooting club in the UK is an onerous task, with the committee members personally responsible for everything that takes place on the range. One slip-up could see us in court with disastrous personal consequences.
We "volunteer" (really we are press-ganged!) to run the club for the good of all members and aim to do so as safely as possible, while maximising both the facilities available and everyones enjoyment. To do this in an increasingly litigious and regulated world is not easy! The work involved is many, many hours per month without payment, favour, or in most cases any thanks.

As well as being a target shooter, I'm also a stalker, fox shooter and vermin controller on my own land as well as others. With that background, I can see why you may think the above process is way over the top - it's so much easier to gain a "permission", get your FAC and just go out and kill things!

The mail you paraphrase from above will have been sent to you by the club membership secretary (not me) and does indeed roughly outline the joining process. Let me explain each step:

1. "'Preliminary paperwork' (whatever that entails)" - this would be the potential member form. Usual stuff of name and address etc. We are legally required to collect this information. Being GDPR compliant, we only collect the minimum information necessary and it would have taken you 1 minute to complete.
2. "Then a formal invitation to visit the range (no shooting)" - yes, we want to meet you, understand your interest in our club and your shooting ambitions. Honestly, also to see if you are a good fit for us. We are a private club and can choose who we want to join. With regards the no shooting rule - would you allow 'Joe Smith' just to rock up from nothing more than an e-mail and be handed a gun? That would simply be irresponsible!
3. "2 signed references" + "2 passport photographs" + "Police background checks" - required only before your 2nd visit if you feel the club is right for you and you are right for the club. Again, we are legally required to collect this and and share it with Police Scotland. We await feedback from Police Scotland at this point who would warn us if you are not suitable to use firearms.
4. "Second formal visit" - at this point you may shoot. For those who have never shot before, this would indeed be rounds single loaded until the RCO and 1-2-1 mentor felt they could be trusted. You would be surprised just how many 1st time shots start waving the muzzle around on their first day! For those who already have an FAC or can demonstrate a degree of pervious shooting experience, they would move on to a full magazine in pretty short order. Safety first, always.
5. "Third formal visit, with a safety briefing before being allowed to shoot (being allowed one round at a time)" - this was either picked up incorrectly, or described incorrectly. As a potential member for the third and fourth visit, you would still be mentored 1-2-1, but able to shoot with a full magazine as long as it was felt safe to let you do so. There is a range brief each and every time we shoot.
6. At this point, you have made no financial commitment to the club - effectively you have been our guest. After your 4th visit, you should have go a good grasp of what we do and, if we are both right for one another, you would be invited to join as a probationary member.
7. "Then a formal interview in front of a committee, and six months probation if you pass, during which you're expected to attend no less than six formal club events or fall foul of the 'committee' and be expected to explain yourself." - I'm not sure where this came from and if it was from the membership secretary, I'll have a word! There is no formal interview, we do this via informal chats during shoot days. As a probationary member, you must take the NRA training course and some exams which qualifies you as a full member and grants you the SCC card mandated by the MOD for some of the ranges we use. This typically takes about 6 months, but can be completed in 3. It's a legal requirement not to issue an SCC card before 3 months and successful training completion.
8. "Clay shoot (unless you don't have a SGC)" - our club has its own clay range. A stipulation of our club insurance is that all shotgun shooters have their own SGC. This is not the case for firearms surprisingly.

Your response of 'You can shove it' is actually exactly what we are looking for. The whole membership process is a total pain, and we don't do it for fun, I can tell you. However, explaining the process up front does enable us to sort the wheat from the chaff - i.e. at the earliest possible stage dissuade those who would not follow it through. I do know of many clubs that approach the process differently and are perhaps more "inviting" of new members. Ultimately they have to follow the same process / legal requirements and I know they have a great many dropouts in the probationary period. We don't want to waste your time any more than we want our time wasted in partially training someone.

The membership process is beautifully illustrated in a flowchart on our website - Join AAFBGC. Had you bothered to read this before you contacted us via the same website, none of this would have been a surprise to you.

I hope you found a club more suitable to your needs.

ATB,
Beerhunter.

Well said. !!!
Being involved in the running of a HO Club is an onerous, thankless task.
I would not volunteer again, it takes over your life.
Much better to just be a Club Member!

 

[Overlay]

woodsmoke
that procedure is pretty well bulk standard in any club, most of which is required by the police to keep a close watch on who shoots and in a safe manner, the training bit is invaluable as is the mentoring and or safety procedures for everyone and anyone

i wouldn’t hoist yourself into a elevated position over joining, start as a new joiner, sit through the bits your not toooooo happy with and eventually you come out the other side with a clean sheet to take part in whatever you want to
discipline wise and pick up a few new mates on route as well

some people don’t fit into a club environment, their mannerism and procedures are different albeit you may be 100% safe but like most things in life you have to be compliant to a standard, once you done that the worlds your oyster

if there are extra bits to do, after a while you’re find out the reason for it, it will probably be down to a past member dropping a clanger hence a stricter line

it does however sound like you’ve cooked your goose on this particular club, which in a way is a shame as it is probably your local range.

 

[Alantoo]

@BeerHunter, I believe Woodsmoke is no longer a member of SD, I think he was banned a few months back after an altercation with the site management.

New members go through much the same introduction, training and probationary period at our club as in yours, but the simplified description of it on our website sets a more accurate tone of the process than yours I think.

New Members​

All new members to the Club will be subject to a probationary period, during which you will be expected to attend the Club and complete the necessary basic training. This applies to everyone, irrelevant as to experience. Once training has been completed and you have attended the range a sufficient number of times then you will be put forward to the Committee for approval to become a full member.

If you would like to join, please complete this Membership Application Form and return to the Membership Secretary, who’s email is above, along with:
– Proof of ID (such as FAC/SGC or passport)
– Proof of address (recent utility bill)
– A digital passport photograph

We will then process your application to join and be in touch with regards to getting you started.

 

[Foxyboy43]

Having no experience of rifle clubs I was looking into membership of one near me. Reading through the joining process, however, my interest has very quickly evaporated. Is this typical of HO clubs?

Initial enquiry
'Preliminary paperwork' (whatever that entails)
Then a formal invitation to visit the range (no shooting)
2 signed references
2 passport photographs
Police background checks
Second formal visit
Third formal visit, with a safety briefing before being allowed to shoot (being allowed one round at a time)
Clay shoot (unless you don't have a SGC)
Then a formal interview in front of a committee, and six months probation if you pass, during which you're expected to attend no less than six formal club events or fall foul of the 'committee' and be expected to explain yourself.

Now, perhaps it's my advancing years, but my immediate response to reading all this was 'You can shove it'.

So you are not joining Capreolus then??

 

[Scotty99]

Most clubs will expect you to have an initial interview, go through a probationary period involving training and supervised shoots on a variety of different firearm actions and calibres. Finally having passed your probationary period, issue you with full membership and a safety / training certificate to enable you to apply for your first FAC. Eminently sensible in my opinion.

 

[Rewulf]

An old thread I know... I was searching for something else on the internet and found this by accident.
As the secretary of the club in question, I felt I needed to respond.

Running a shooting club in the UK is an onerous task, with the committee members personally responsible for everything that takes place on the range. One slip-up could see us in court with disastrous personal consequences.
We "volunteer" (really we are press-ganged!) to run the club for the good of all members and aim to do so as safely as possible, while maximising both the facilities available and everyones enjoyment. To do this in an increasingly litigious and regulated world is not easy! The work involved is many, many hours per month without payment, favour, or in most cases any thanks.

I am secretary at 2 HO approved clubs, is it an 'onerous' task doing this job ? No.
Does it take hours of thankless work a month to run it ? No.
Are any members forced to become committee ? No.
And are they 'solely responsible' if something goes wrong ? No. If safety protocols arent enforced , then maybe....But even the most seasoned firearms user can slip up.

As well as being a target shooter, I'm also a stalker, fox shooter and vermin controller on my own land as well as others. With that background, I can see why you may think the above process is way over the top - it's so much easier to gain a "permission", get your FAC and just go out and kill things!

Going out and killing things is not what its about, its sport , or its pest control/culling.
Its the job of FEOs and club committees to decide if the FAC holder or club member is mature enough to differentiate , and make the right decision.

Your response of 'You can shove it' is actually exactly what we are looking for. The whole membership process is a total pain, and we don't do it for fun, I can tell you. However, explaining the process up front does enable us to sort the wheat from the chaff - i.e. at the earliest possible stage dissuade those who would not follow it through. I do know of many clubs that approach the process differently and are perhaps more "inviting" of new members. Ultimately they have to follow the same process / legal requirements and I know they have a great many dropouts in the probationary period. We don't want to waste your time any more than we want our time wasted in partially training someone.

The membership process is beautifully illustrated in a flowchart on our website - Join AAFBGC. Had you bothered to read this before you contacted us via the same website, none of this would have been a surprise to you.

I hope you found a club more suitable to your needs.

This is the problem with many clubs these days, they make themselves inaccessible through a cliquey hierarchy.
You have set the bar high in your club , and that is your prerogative , I hope you have a good healthy membership, because many clubs in my area have gone down this route, and now have dwindling memberships, and they cant understand why.
If you want a serious target club , where there are tough entry requirements , dont be surprised when you get OP like this.
We have clubs like this in Notts and Derby, with very high membership subs, and single figure memberships, usually of very old shooters.

But the sport needs new blood , and the sport part of firearms doesnt need to be serious all the time, it should be accessible , fun and enjoyable , with a competitive spirit.
That doesnt mean just let anyone in, but giving prospective members the 3rd degree and demanding them lay their lives bare to you isnt going to endear many people.
A prospective member in our clubs require a sec 21 to be filled out (firearms informed of their name address and DOB), name and address, and a sponsor within the club , who can be a committee member if they dont know anyone.
They will be able to shoot first day , but will be closely supervised for the entirety of their probation, 6 months, or 3 months if they already have FAC or SGC, once probation is complete , a quorum of committee will OK full membership, but any issues found during probation will be addressed and if necessary , membership money will be returned , and probation cancelled (This has never happened)
In times like these when the sport is under renewed threat, WE need as many people as possible to be able to continue.
The slow decline in club members (Due to many different factors) , and active participants in shooting in general will just put further nails in private firearms ownerships coffin.

 

[BeerHunter]

@Rewulf - I can see that the sport is in a different position in our respective locations. We are growing and actually had to increase our (constitutional) membership limit twice in the last 3 years to accommodate new members.
Perhaps we are then in the lucky position where we can pick and choose who we want to become members. We are open to everyone, but specifically seeking individuals who will be active members participating in multiple club activities. For example, we will actively dissuade shooters simply looking to come and zero a rifle once in a blue moon (even if their fees would be welcome). We believe that this leads to a club with great weekly attendance and a genuine small community with very few issues.
Furthermore, not only are we growing, the average age has been dropping dramatically. The future looks rosy for us, but perhaps we are in an unusual position here?
For the potential member, there is nothing arduous in our membership process and indeed they are "spoon-fed" through the whole journey. Explaining it up front is simply being upright and honest of what is involved.
When speaking to probationary and new full members, they actually talk about how happy they are with our joining and training process - it allows them to experience many different disciplines, meet many different members and to feel safe and competent by the end of it.

 

[Rewulf]

All good stuff , and well done.
Please dont take my comments as a slight , your figures speak for themselves

 

[paul o']

Far too many clubs are run it like an old boys' club with white cloth shorts and large caps blue leather jackets like punk rockers of yester year strapped and buckled in chaps !! we have or know some of that type 60-80+ years of age that dislike a new face but are happy to give you 6 months' probation for your coin. Then add you can't use your full bore until you have proved you can use a .22 , but only when they say you can use the range? you will need to sit endless exams to earn your fist cap badge of many to come! only when you get them all from the head teacher and your weeping like a child you have now reached the stage of brainwashing at this point they will start to talk to you and look you in the eye. At this point you start to find out most are offended that you kill and eat meat!! last ! before you gain access to the open ranges there is more endless crap this time in picture form from Mr. Chumney Warner. So you're in! not yet !! only once the holy grail in the form of the SSC has been earned in another trial of joy ! then at this point you get in , but God help you can shoot better than their top guy who they worship like a god? from that time you're on the **** list of no return.

 

[Jagare]

To join a club here you fill out a form, name ,address and telephone number plus age pay the yearly subscription and start shooting. I belong to two clubs both have skeet, trap, static rifle ,running moose and running boar.

 

[HonestJohn]

Having no experience of rifle clubs I was looking into membership of one near me. Reading through the joining process, however, my interest has very quickly evaporated. Is this typical of HO clubs?

Initial enquiry
'Preliminary paperwork' (whatever that entails)
Then a formal invitation to visit the range (no shooting)
2 signed references
2 passport photographs
Police background checks
Second formal visit
Third formal visit, with a safety briefing before being allowed to shoot (being allowed one round at a time)
Clay shoot (unless you don't have a SGC)
Then a formal interview in front of a committee, and six months probation if you pass, during which you're expected to attend no less than six formal club events or fall foul of the 'committee' and be expected to explain yourself.

Now, perhaps it's my advancing years, but my immediate response to reading all this was 'You can shove it'.

Almost sounds like a Surrey gold club, less the 6 lifetime waiting lists and £3m deposit of course