Junior doctors strike

[Bowland blades]

I retired because I got cancer. Not out of choice.

sorry to hear that

 

[big ears]

I have recently tried to book a private appointment with a doctor to speed the process up for getting back to work, It was going to cost me £295 for a telephone consultation which I didn't have a problem with but didn't proceed as there was only a couple weeks difference between NHS and Private so wasn't speeding up at all as the doctor even privately is booked for months in advance and my appointment is not until the end of June, Anyway the private doctor I would be having the consultation with is the same NHS doctor who I have the appointment with in June, He works 2 days a week after hours carrying out private care, Tuesday and Friday
So when these junior Doctors come out of their training or basically apprenticeship it appears there is a good amount of money to be made in private sector alongside side their roll as NHS doctors.

So are you saying doctors cannot have two jobs as others can?
As you say his Private work was over and above his NHS commitment NOT instead.

 

[Dazb1967]

So are you saying doctors cannot have two jobs as others can?
As you say his Private work was over and above his NHS commitment NOT instead.

No not at all and as I said I had no problem paying the money if it was beneficial but it wasn't, What I am saying is these junior doctors can go on to make a lot more money, I'm sure that Junior doctors go into there profession knowing that in years to come they will be on way more than someone stacking shelves in a supermarket which was referred to on the TV at one point, otherwise there would be no point in continuing doing what they do.

 

[Bowland blades]

So are you saying doctors cannot have two jobs as others can?
As you say his Private work was over and above his NHS commitment NOT instead.

That's an easy call for many of us . No employer allows it that i know of in the same trade ! I recently sent my daughter private because things where getting impossible for her with a long waiting list ( we saw the same guy we where on the list for ) Obviously he made more than his hourly rate with the NHS but and this is the big one .... How well might he do at the side gig if he didn't have his employment within the NHS ?
Pick a team and play on it i say . I have had to sign contracts to state i would not take outside of work jobs doing the same things as my employer through my career many times with financial penalties and dismissal if i did .
in my mid fifties now , i chose my path having only done perhaps a decade of working for a Boss other than myself . Wow , if i was able to do both ....... !!!

 

[big ears]

No not at all and as I said I had no problem paying the money if it was beneficial but it wasn't, What I am saying is these junior doctors can go on to make a lot more money, I'm sure that Junior doctors go into there profession knowing that in years to come they will be on way more than someone stacking shelves in a supermarket which was referred to on the TV at one point, otherwise there would be no point in continuing doing what they do.

Trust me you don’t go into medicine to make money. Dentistry or law if you want that.
That said Consultants are not paid poorly.

The proportion of doctors who do private work is very small compared to the total number of doctors. Some specialities do not provide access to private work. Emergency medicine and cancer work being two that immediately spring to mind.

The opportunity to make more than your NHS salary can be a driving force to why some decide on a certain career but mostly it is done out passion and interest rather than financial gain.

 

[big ears]

That's an easy call for many of us . No employer allows it that i know of in the same trade ! I recently sent my daughter private because things where getting impossible for her with a long waiting list ( we saw the same guy we where on the list for ) Obviously he made more than his hourly rate with the NHS but and this is the big one .... How well might he do at the side gig if he didn't have his employment within the NHS ?

Private companies will not allow you to offer private medicine unless you have a substantive NHS post in most cases although there are now a small number of totally private doctors, these will not get funding from insurance cases.
It’s because when things go wrong, and they can do, the NHS will pick up the pieces.

 

[RM100]

When I was young and left school I worked in a job I always wanted to do which was a repairing machinery as a mechanic, Anyway once there and clocking in and out every day and working shifts I absolutely hated it so I quit and moved on, If these junior doctors are not happy why don't they change careers now whilst they are still young and find something they will be happy with, My wife works in care and the s**t she has had to put with over the covid years was unbelievable and often came home in tears, Anyway I told her the same I would tell these junior doctors and that was change career but she loves what she does and takes the rough with the smooth, She also has to work weekends and bank holidays and doesn't get extra pay.
I totally agree they need more money but they know what money they will be getting when they enrol and they know they will be working shifts and If they can go and get more money stacking shelves then go and do it

They ARE voting with their feet…..which is why you can’t see a doctor!

 

[Stalker62]

Emergency medicine and cancer work being two that immediately spring to mind.

Make no about it.


If you are languishing in your private ward/hospital/clinic and it all goes 't*ts. up', they will stick you in an ambulance (not in any hurry are we sir?) and 'blue light' you to an NHS facility, where, notwithstanding all the issues we all know about, you will receive some of the finest medical care in the world.

I know the NHS needs reforming.

On a purely selfish note, I also know that I owe them my life - twice.

 

[Cumbrian 1]

The NHS is not fit for purpose, the Swiss model gives everyone regardless of wealth world class healthcare via compulsory medical insurance

 

[Bowland blades]

Private companies will not allow you to offer private medicine unless you have a substantive NHS post in most cases although there are now a small number of totally private doctors, these will not get funding from insurance cases.
It’s because when things go wrong, and they can do, the NHS will pick up the pieces.

Which is even more balmy ! Your saying they go out doing "Foreigners" and the NHS foot the risk , while they poach the bosses birds basically ?!
Only Government would be dumb enough or corrupt enough to allow this

 

[willie_gunn]

Trainee doctors receive, on average, £163,000 in grants that are never paid back. Then they quite happily toddle off to other countries to earn more money and stick two fingers up at those who subsidised their education.

Perhaps we should start asking for refunds?

 

[big ears]

Which is even more balmy ! Your saying they go out doing "Foreigners" and the NHS foot the risk , while they poach the bosses birds basically ?!
Only Government would be dumb enough or corrupt enough to allow this

About right.
It needs a shake up. Which politicians are going to do that?
Tried talking to my local MP not interested.

 

[big ears]

Trainee doctors receive, on average, £163,000 in grants that are never paid back. Then they quite happily toddle off to other countries to earn more money and stick two fingers up at those who subsidised their education.

Perhaps we should start asking for refunds?

Love to know where you got that figure from and what it really refers to .

 

[Apthorpe]

Cheers.


Tried it another way,


Dear Readers. Imagine you are paid £400 per week. If your boss drops your wages by £50, that's a 12.5% pay cut. Imagine that your boss does this again. Your now on £300 per week, and fairly ****ed off. Imagine that your job becomes more onerous and the job becomes even harder, and that you are so ****ed off that you ask for your pay to go back up to £400.

Your boss then tells you that going up from £300 to £400 is a 33% pay rise, and that this simply isn't an option. And also that you are being greedy, and as a result, people will suffer.

You'd feel pretty miffed, wouldn't you?

This is partly what is going on with the Junior Doctors' strike next week. They are asking for 35% pay restoration, to bring their wages back into line. (I've used £400 as a simple number to illustrate the maths, not as the exact amount).

I'd suggest you've used £400 as a simple number to imply that they're underpaid. Everyone knows that demanding 35%
One has to look at this in the context of the real world. Everyone else has taken a substantial pay cut too. Not only that, but the ability of the state to pay more has been severely dented by the £400 billion pounds which was spent to protect the NHS and doctors at the expense of the population. In other industries, pay rises are generally contingent on productivity improvements, yet any attempts at improving productivity are bitterly opposed by the BMA among other interested groups.

These are the very junior doctors who were doing a lot of the grunt work in hospitals during the pandemic, alongside our nursing colleagues and other NHS services. Three years ago, we were clapping them; now the media are trying their hardest to vilify them.

By all accounts, Steven Barclays-**** is refusing to even turn up to any meetings with the BMA, let alone negotiate.

I can't say I blame him. Not only is he not the employer, but I wouldn't turn up to meetings to negotiate with people who don't actually want to reach a reasonable settlement, but who primarily want to bring down the government.

Please remember this next week. This is not about 'left wing wokerati taking over the BMA and demanding unreasonable wage demands'.

It is somewhat. If the various grievances of not just doctors, but other public sector workers are genuine and reasonable, why are they electing extremist headbangers as union leaders to represent them?

It is about juniors having the bollocks to stand up to a Government who simply doesn't care.

It is nothing of the sort. It is about politically motivated activists trying to bring the government down under the pretence of a Labour dispute and expecting the population to side with their demands to be paid more for a deteriorating level of service and antiquated working practices.

 

[Apthorpe]

So are you saying doctors cannot have two jobs as others can?

Others don't generally benefit from a massive state subsidy combined with "closed shop" restrictive practices. Most people's employment contracts specifically prohibit working extra jobs.

As you say his Private work was over and above his NHS commitment NOT instead.

I don't think I'm the only person who thinks two days work per week is perhaps a little light in terms of commitment, especially when enjoying the enormous benefits they enjoy over the rest of the population.

 

[Apthorpe]

Trust me you don’t go into medicine to make money. Dentistry or law if you want that.
That said Consultants are not paid poorly.

A lot of people do go into medicine to make money, which is why you see some specialities more oversubscribed than others.

The proportion of doctors who do private work is very small compared to the total number of doctors

Exactly how small a proportion?

. Some specialities do not provide access to private work. Emergency medicine and cancer work being two that immediately spring to mind.

Really? My wife has been getting her cancer work done privately for years now. Which is just as well because she'd be still untreated and dead if she'd relied on the NHS. As a consequence of incompetence and certainly not of underfunding.

The opportunity to make more than your NHS salary can be a driving force to why some decide on a certain career but mostly it is done out passion and interest rather than financial gain.

 

[paul o']

They do get a rum deal but it was a life choice after all ! they do it for the £100k a year plus at the end of it and the nice better than most Pension at the end ,Nurses on the other hand get all the shat jobs and still get less ?
I know quite a few that are skilled in all things Doctoring but did't go down the road of shirt and tie and rolled up sleeves and a manner that cuts fog on a November morning .
All are under paid in this sector apart from the top floor walkers and as for some GP'S ??? .
My Sector has had the first uplift in 10 years at a rate of 2.5% ! So we are still going backwards in real terms . We unlike a lot of GP's etc had Zero time off inc Hols or Furlough days still full F2F in care homes when it was at its worst. This is the first year we have been able to book and take our holidays and have been told we can only take over 10 out of the 26 days and there will be no buyback .This from a Council That is now a city and has been given a boost in Government uplift.
Mine also is a life choice and thank Feck i'v only two years to run .
My rant .

 

[willie_gunn]

Love to know where you got that figure from and what it really refers to .

Look at Full Fact:

The cost of training a doctor - Full Fact

The government estimates that it costs £230,000 overall to get the average student through medical school. “The taxpayer” doesn’t pay for all of this because some comes in student loans.

fullfact.org

The figure comes from 2016, so is doubtless more now. It excludes any student loans that are repaid.

 

[Dalua]

No.
They are junior doctors. Some are in training posts others service based posts. Not all are trainees.

Perhaps I've misunderstood the BMA's definition of 'junior doctor', then. I thought the strike was limited to those in training.

I'm not sure how an FY2's £40,000-odd pa turns into £14 per hour?

 

[Stalker62]

I'm not sure how an FY2's £40,000-odd pa turns into £14 per hour?

55 hour weeks for 52 week a year...