Kentucky Ballistics gun explosion

[Sharpie]

If you check out his channel (don't bother), you'll see that he has been shooting loads of old "surplus" stuff through that same rifle, including the same "SLAP" stuff, prior to the kaboom. The rifle seems to have been significantly used before it finally let go.

As to his seemingly slapdash jokey manner, well if that is also carried through into how he approaches gun safety, inspection, maintenance etc. hmm.

So, as a durability test of the thing, well it seems that he has provided one point, caught on camera. Which I suppose is a service to all.

 

[aris]

If you check out his channel (don't bother), you'll see that he has been shooting loads of old "surplus" stuff through that same rifle, including the same "SLAP" stuff, prior to the kaboom. The rifle seems to have been significantly used before it finally let go.

As to his seemingly slapdash jokey manner, well if that is also carried through into how he approaches gun safety, inspection, maintenance etc. hmm.

So, as a durability test of the thing, well it seems that he has provided one point, caught on camera. Which I suppose is a service to all.

If you watched the video - you would see his post-mortem analysis was that each of the weird-ass cartiridges he was shooting were behaving very differently. - one giving a huge fiery muzzle blast. It may well been a durability issue from shooting multiple over-pressure out of specification rounds. Essentially one or two - OK (similar to what you would have in a proof test) - five or six - niet.

 

[old keeper]

As far as military ammo is concerned, when I was an armourer in the RAF if there was any form of misfire or malfunction in a batch of 303 ammunition we had an order to destroy all of the rounds we had in that batch. It happened a few times and as far as |I can remember despite firing off thousands of suspected rounds we never actually had one that malfunctioned.

 

[Klenchblaize]

All I can think of is the NRA/MOD paperwork to be completed if such a thing happened when I was the Range Conducting Officer of the moment.

K

 

[Sharpie]

As far as military ammo is concerned, when I was an armourer in the RAF if there was any form of misfire or malfunction in a batch of 303 ammunition we had an order to destroy all of the rounds we had in that batch. It happened a few times and as far as |I can remember despite firing off thousands of suspected rounds we never actually had one that malfunctioned.

EPVAT testing nowadays.

NATO EPVAT testing - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

FWIW the NATO 12.7x99 is the .50 BMG.

Service pressure 60,481 PSI. Proof pressure 75,608 PSI.

The above proof round pressure requirements for the 9 mm and 12.7 mm rounds established by the British Ministry of Defence are higher than the current (2008) C.I.P. proof round pressure requirement legislation for the civilian equivalent 9mm Parabellum (C.I.P. Pmax rating 235 MPA / (34,083 psi) and .50 Browning (C.I.P. Pmax rating 370 MPA / (53,663 psi) rounds.[11][12] The 9×19mm NATO and 12.7×99mm NATO rounds can be regarded as overpressure ammunition

Perhaps Mr Serbu is unaware of these niceties.

So stick that in your Serbu RN-50 pipe, and smoke it (if you dare).

 

[Yorkie]

According to wiki, the SLAP - Saboted light armour penetrator - ammunition he used was made by Winchester. God only knows what happened to it between the factory and him.

I think he makes some fun videos using some interesting firearms. I am really pleased to see the lad is going to be ok.

 

[aris]

Forgotten weapons has done a great video on this

 

[Sharpie]

Forgotten weapons has done a great video on this

Ian was, I think, being remarkably polite.

Starting off by explaining that firearms manufacturers, since the late 1800s gave been aware of the need to mitigate against the effects of failures in their weapons causing injury to their users, and demonstrating the many ways in which they have been developed.

Then, briefly, saying that any weapon should incorporate such features to minimise the chance of bits of it coming back to strike the user. And alluding to the absence of anything in the RN-50 to do so.

As to potential defects in manufacture, well take a look at a tour of the Birmingham Proof House "black museum". The first object on display:





As to the SLAP round in question, according to Saboted light armor penetrator - Wikipedia

The 12.7×99mm round is designated as the M903 (standard) and M962 (tracer)

Production
The SLAP family of ammunition is produced by the Winchester Cartridge Company and Olin Manufacturing. The team began production of the ammunition in 1985. The sabot that contains the sub-caliber is manufactured by Cytec Industries.

So not that old necessarily. It's certainly an unconventional sort of thing to be shooting through a rifle only designed for standard civilian ammunition. From what I have read, the sabot is of polymer construction, holding the steel penetrator.

Lets see, supposedly this rifle, when new and in good shape, might give way at 85,000 psi. plus. Yet, as I have explained, Nato 12.7x99mm ammo has a service pressure of 60,481 psi. Not the 53,663 psi of civilian ammo. Proof rounds are 75,608 psi. That is a large difference. Designed factor of "safety" shooting Nato ammo (even if every RN-50 was actually proofed to Nato pressure using the Nato CIP methodology) would be a mere 13%.

I am entirely unsurprised that the rifle let go, nor that the chap suffered such grievous injuries, given the total lack of mitigation in this rifle's unconventional design.

Bad ammo could certainly have been a contributing factor, but the warning signs were also there to see.

 

[8x57]

Perhaps this explains it- copied directly from the forum on another site.

"The important thing to remember is that the Cart .50in SLAP M903 (Saboted Light Armour Penetrator) is issued in belts (with the SLAP-T round M962) for the M2 Browning machine gun and similar weapons systems. They are not issued as single rounds for use in the various .50in anti-materiel rifles. There is a good reason for this.

Cartridge .50in SLAP M903 or Cart .50in SLAP-T M962 should NOT be fired through any weapon system employing a muzzle brake or a suppressor. There is a known tendency for the 'petals' of the sabot to be retained in the muzzle brake or suppressor and these can form a blockage. Since the only way a normal human can fire a rifle of that calibre is if it is equipped with an efficient muzzle brake, this would seem to contra-indicate the use of these rounds in said rifles.

Now I am not saying for sure that this is what happened in this case, we are not shown enough to make that determination, but it is one possibility. Also, as he noted in the video these rounds came through some pretty dodgy channels, and God only knows from where and when. Occasionally rounds are disposed-of because they are unsafe and on occasion, untrustworthy individuals have sold this dangerous ammunition into private hands."

 

[enfieldspares]

That. Above.

And with that let us hope this thread can perhaps be closed.

 

[Sharpie]

That. Above.

And with that let us hope this thread can perhaps be closed.

Agreed, had failed to notice that he was putting a saboted round through a muzzle brake.

Surely a total no-no.

Speculation: bits of sabot stuck in brake. Next round hits them, more sabot unpeeled inside brake, penetrator gets through to wander off where it will, huge muzzle flash. Keep on shooting, now a major muzzle obstruction. Kaboom.

No point closing the thread, this one has legs yet, early days, and probably plenty more to come once the US people get their teeth into it.

Relevance to the UK ? Minimal, I doubt many of the FCSA are using RN-50s. or are so naïve as to do such things. But it is interesting to observe, from a (safe) distance, the antics across the pond.

RN-50

serbu.com

Recommendation for suitable civilian ammo on that page.

Ironic, the "exploded view": https://serbu.com/content/RNExplodedView.pdf

 

[enfieldspares]

I think that outwith the weapon used that SLAP rounds are in any case s5ab here in the UK being classed as "armour piercing ammunition" by that usual friend of shooting a dictatorial, large majority, authoritarian Home Secretary of a Conservative Government.

 

[Sharpie]

Further observation.

Firing pin and hammer. Pierced or blown out primer. Where might these bits go in a sub-kaboom ? Or even just (?) a squirt of gas in the face. There is a lot of gas created in a .50, at very great pressures.

 

[aris]

I'm wondering how long before YouTube bans these kinds of channels. There are plenty of them, each one trying to outdo the other with exploits. I suspect it'll happen after someone really does get killed.

 

[Sharpie]

I'm wondering how long before YouTube bans these kinds of channels. There are plenty of them, each one trying to outdo the other with exploits. I suspect it'll happen after someone really does get killed.

It seems that the RN-50 was largely "designed", if you can call it that, by a Mr. R. N. On the basis of his being a massive social media catch, all over youtube etc. Yet Mark Serbu put it into production, in a kickstarter-ish sort of way, possibly regretting it now.

 

[aris]

It seems that the RN-50 was largely "designed", if you can call it that, by a Mr. R. N. On the basis of his being a massive social media catch, all over youtube etc. Yet Mark Serbu put it into production, in a kickstarter-ish sort of way, possibly regretting it now.

I don't think he regrets it. The gun was pushed past its specification using ammunition which should not have been used in it. Royal Nonsuch may have conceived it, but Mark Serbu designed it. I'm betting that 50 cal users everywhere are thinking twice about using this type of ammunition in their rifles. I'm not sure if you ever watched the Royal Nonsuch channel - but he basically built "guns" out of bits of pipe, and some very questionable welding. Not surprised YouTube took it down.

Serbu will be doing a video of a postmortem as soon as he gets the bits back from Kentucky Ballistics.

Channels like Demolition Ranch, Edwin Sarkissien, Tafeldemaus - all similar to Kentucky Ballistics (minus the full auto).

 

[bfltd0]

NATO rounds can be regarded as overpressure ammunition

Military ammo can be, quite literally, a law unto itself.

Back in the 80s, I remember several range weekends when we used Army-issue 9mm Parabellum ammo through Army-issue Browning Hi-Powers that fair rattled my fillings. On investigation, I found there was a 9mm Parabellum cartridges available for use in pistols only. The QM had only ordered the stuff that was supposed to be fired through the Sterling SMGs; this was noticeably hotter.

I hate to think how many Brownings we helped to an early grave by firing these essentially +P+ rounds.

 

[Apthorpe]

I'm wondering how long before YouTube bans these kinds of channels. There are plenty of them, each one trying to outdo the other with exploits. I suspect it'll happen after someone really does get killed.

It hasn't so far. IIRC correctly, there's been at least one death and some serious injuries from the following:
Camera + idiot + large amount of tannerite +gun = predictable and nasty accident.

 

[aris]

Mark Serbu speaks

 

[bfltd0]

Mark Serbu speaks

A great response that he is going to do some analysis on this and stress test to destruction one of his .50s.