LandRover dealership visit

[NewForester]

In spite of having read these Land Rover threads for years, six months ago I bought a brand new Defender XS SWB. So far no warning lights have come on and I have had no problems. But I have only done 5,000 miles in it, and a lot of that is my wife driving around the village. I have driven from Bournemouth to Nottingham in it and it wasn't that bad. Here are some some thoughts about it.

First, we noticed that there was no manual, and when I phoned I was told it was in a box under the seat. I could not fathom out how to get into this box, and when I phoned again, they explained that I had to practically dismantle the seat to get it. It just seems ridiculous that LR couldn't have made something more ergonomic. (When I got in, there was no manual there, not under either seat. But, I have been sent one since.)

Then, the radio didn't seem to work very well. I realized that you had to pull the aerial up yourself. Even in the '80's I remember having an electric aerial.

Driving in some woods at night a herd of fallow ran across my path, and as I glanced in my rear view mirror I saw some more fallow crossing behind me. Then I realized that, because the front and back windows are flat and parallel to each other, what I saw in my rear view mirror was actually what I was seeing in front of me. I swear that you could drive a defender in the dark just looking in the rear view mirror. That must have a use somewhere.

In spite of all this, we love it. My wife and daughter really like to drive it. When every other make is a slave to computational fluid dynamics and hence look similar, the Defender stands out with its boxy but well proportioned shape. It is a head turner. True, it is mainly blokes and schoolboys who look at it but my wife thinks they are looking at her.

It is strange how Land Rover seems to have cars that epitomize the extremes of the cad and integrity spectrums. The murdering estate agent/property developer in Midsommers Murders will invariable drive a Range Rover. The dependable and reliable Rosemary and Thyme and Sherlock Holmes (modern version) drive Defenders.

So, only six months and 5,000 miles in, and we always have the manual handy for the potential disaster we have been warned to expect, but so far we love the quirky Defender.

 

[Klenchblaize]

I only wish they were all green and one could buy a caravan to match.

K

 

[rodp]

In spite of having read these Land Rover threads for years, six months ago I bought a brand new Defender XS SWB. So far no warning lights have come on and I have had no problems. But I have only done 5,000 miles in it, and a lot of that is my wife driving around the village. I have driven from Bournemouth to Nottingham in it and it wasn't that bad. Here are some some thoughts about it.

First, we noticed that there was no manual, and when I phoned I was told it was in a box under the seat. I could not fathom out how to get into this box, and when I phoned again, they explained that I had to practically dismantle the seat to get it.Always been the same, the seat boxes are virtually indestructible so they work, comfort of use is secondary. It just seems ridiculous that LR couldn't have made something more ergonomic. (When I got in, there was no manual there, not under either seat. But, I have been sent one since.)

Then, the radio didn't seem to work very well. I realized that you had to pull the aerial up yourself. Even in the '80's I remember having an electric aerial. Electric aerials pop up when ignition or radio is on, then get snapped off on trees and bushes. That's why they fit one you can leave down.

Driving in some woods at night a herd of fallow ran across my path, and as I glanced in my rear view mirror I saw some more fallow crossing behind me. Then I realized that, because the front and back windows are flat and parallel to each other, what I saw in my rear view mirror was actually what I was seeing in front of me. I swear that you could drive a defender in the dark just looking in the rear view mirror. That must have a use somewhere.
Flat glass is one of the definitions of a true off road vehicle, or used to be. You can replace flat glass anywhere in the world.

In spite of all this, we love it. My wife and daughter really like to drive it. When every other make is a slave to computational fluid dynamics and hence look similar, the Defender stands out with its boxy but well proportioned shape. It is a head turner. True, it is mainly blokes and schoolboys who look at it but my wife thinks they are looking at her.

It is strange how Land Rover seems to have cars that epitomize the extremes of the cad and integrity spectrums. The murdering estate agent/property developer in Midsommers Murders will invariable drive a Range Rover. The dependable and reliable Rosemary and Thyme and Sherlock Holmes (modern version) drive Defenders.

So, only six months and 5,000 miles in, and we always have the manual handy for the potential disaster we have been warned to expect, but so far we love the quirky Defender.

 

[Rake Aboot]

Well,, my Audi broke down today at Dundee (missed job interview ! buggers ! )

Anyhoo,, AA bloke turned up to flat bed it home and the discussion turned to landrovers. They have a league tick sheet thing in the workshop and the Discovery is way out in front regards numbers recovered. Many more broken down than any other make or model.

What did the recovery driver own as his family car ? Yup, a Discovery

 

[gixer1]

Electric aerials pop up when ignition or radio is on, then get snapped off on trees and bushes. That's why they fit one you can leave down. _

rubbish! the range rovers and discovery's had aerial's hidden in the A pillar, they also had them as electric, the main reason was its a lot cheaper to fit a manual unit! and the electric aerials on the discos and rangerovers stayed down if the radio was left off.

Flat glass is one of the definitions of a true off road vehicle, or used to be. You can replace flat glass anywhere in the world. _ again - I do not believe this is the case, they still have folding windows on the series and defenders to allow the windows to be out of the way to prevent breakage and low height and originally to allow firing of a weapon in a forward direction (The Defender Wolf and the SII/IIa Panther had a forward facing gun installed on some of them), replacing the glass is nothing to do with the offroad thing - it is however a benefit but when I worked for them I never heard any mention of it being due to the ease replacement

As I said before, Landrovers are great, but they are by no means reliable when compared with some of their competitors.

Regards,

Gixer

 

[rodp]

Electric aerials pop up when ignition or radio is on, then get snapped off on trees and bushes. That's why they fit one you can leave down. _

rubbish! the range rovers and discovery's had aerial's hidden in the A pillar, they also had them as electric, the main reason was its a lot cheaper to fit a manual unit! and the electric aerials on the discos and rangerovers stayed down if the radio was left off.

Flat glass is one of the definitions of a true off road vehicle, or used to be. You can replace flat glass anywhere in the world. _ again - I do not believe this is the case, they still have folding windows on the series and defenders to allow the windows to be out of the way to prevent breakage and low height and originally to allow firing of a weapon in a forward direction (The Defender Wolf and the SII/IIa Panther had a forward facing gun installed on some of them), replacing the glass is nothing to do with the offroad thing - it is however a benefit but when I worked for them I never heard any mention of it being due to the ease replacement

As I said before, Landrovers are great, but they are by no means reliable when compared with some of their competitors.

Regards,

Gixer

Why would you design something that was originally going to be a farm hack with a windscreen to fold out of the way of weapons? The land Rover was a replacement for the Wilk's Jeep that packed up after the war, there was never any intention of it being sold to the forces, in fact, it was only a temporary measure until steel came off ration and cars started being produced again. As you may know, the body was produced from Birmabright.

Regarding the aerial, with manual you can use the radio with the aerial down or partly up, doesn't get snapped off then. With regard to Range Rovers and Disco's, very few get used the same as a Defender.

There were originally 4 items that defined a true offroad / expedition vehicle. Flat glass (replace anywhere in the world), High / low (for obvious reasons). No sills ( so the vehicle was self draining after river crossings and could be hosed out). Can't remember the fourth

 

[long_range_rob]

Unreliable, ugly, slow, badly made pieces of poo!

That said I'd love to own a 90 Tomb Raider special edition.

 

[palmer_mike]

Unreliable, ugly, slow, badly made pieces of poo!

That said I'd love to own a 90 Tomb Raider special edition.

Complete with Angelina Jolie?

 

[rodp]

Remembered what the fourth was (I hate being old) Separate chassis. See if you can tell me why a chassis was reckoned to be important (beside usually being more robust than monocoque construction)

 

[gixer1]

Why would you design something that was originally going to be a farm hack with a windscreen to fold out of the way of weapons? The land Rover was a replacement for the Wilk's Jeep that packed up after the war, there was never any intention of it being sold to the forces, in fact, it was only a temporary measure until steel came off ration and cars started being produced again. As you may know, the body was produced from Birmabright.

Regarding the aerial, with manual you can use the radio with the aerial down or partly up, doesn't get snapped off then. With regard to Range Rovers and Disco's, very few get used the same as a Defender.

There were originally 4 items that defined a true offroad / expedition vehicle. Flat glass (replace anywhere in the world), High / low (for obvious reasons). No sills ( so the vehicle was self draining after river crossings and could be hosed out). Can't remember the fourth

Nope!! It was the willy jeep you are thinking of - the "wilks" was Maurice wilks the designer...who based his design on the willy's jeep which also had a fold down front window for - you guessed it - military service.....

he designed the rover for his croft in Wales but the design was military bases - and was involved and developed by the military from the start.

 

[joe soapy]

The windscreen when folded down allows you to drive the horse as well as the brokendown landy

 

[Rake Aboot]

Anyhoo

Anyone got a 110 CSW 300tdi ? preferably with a galvanised chassis ?.

On the hunt. Might trade a Hiace hitop 4x4 campervan or a 59 plate L200 (he says halfheartedly)

 

[tackb]

well the first day I've needed 4x4 for snow and the bloody car is in with LR being fixed(same faults again) so I have a powerful rear drive car , fecking brilliant !!!

 

[paul k]

Its not just buying it thats expensive my vouge went in for its service yesterday bill was nearly £1500.00. To be fair they did fit new brake pads and washed it at the same time!!

Luckily in North Wales we have a number of independent Land Rover specialists who do very good work at hourly rates far lower than the main dealers and will use pattern parts for non critical components (or use LR parts if you choose to). I have two within 5 miles and would never consider going to a main dealer, my last service for my RR Vogue was just shy of £500 all in and I am not charged for occasional use of their diagostic computer programme to check and clear fault codes. For anyone in this area I can recommend Power Range of Henllan near Denbigh. They will collect and deliver within a 5 mile range and have a free loaner available.

 

[Rake Aboot]

Main dealers are ****s.

I snapped the clutch pedal on the Audi on Tuesday. Audi wanted to fit a new pedal box. £92 for the part, £1100 to fit it.

Local bloke found a repair section (common fault so the clutch pedal is available on its own and is an easy fit, Audi neglected to mention this !)

Total bill, £105. Big difference, so it`s not just LR main dealers that take the ****.

 

[paultap]

Main dealers are ****s.

I snapped the clutch pedal on the Audi on Tuesday. Audi wanted to fit a new pedal box. £92 for the part, £1100 to fit it.

Local bloke found a repair section (common fault so the clutch pedal is available on its own and is an easy fit, Audi neglected to mention this !)

Total bill, £105. Big difference, so it`s not just LR main dealers that take the ****.

I agree with the above in that many main dealers will take the mick if they can get away with it.

I had a Subaru impreza with an engine oil leak, I took it to a main dealer and discussed the problem personally with a mechanic there, without stripping the car, I was told that it was a fairly common problem and that a seal was probably at fault , the cost of the seal was a couple of quid, but to fix it the timing belt would have to come off to get at it. The car would then have to have the timing belt set up again. If the timing belt (which was less than 5000 miles old) was contaminated with oil, a new timing belt would also need to be fitted.

I thought the above sounded logical and after talking it over with a mechanic friend ( who agreed with the above)
I had the car booked in to the main dealer for the work to be carried out. They gave me a price to change the seal and retime the belt and another price that included the price of a new belt, the belt was an extra £70.

I had one stipulation, that the service manager would phone me to tell me if the timing belt was contaminated before proceeding further, which was agreed.

A few hours later I had a phone call from the service manager saying that the timing belt would have to be changed as it was contaminated with oil, plus he said there would be an additional £45 labour (half an hour) to Remove the belt...... I then pointed out what the mechanic had told me, that they had to remove the belt anyway to change the oil seal.... So where was the extra labour coming from? they just had to put a new one on instead of putting the original one back on and then retime the belt. There was a long silence on the phone and the manager, after a bit of stuttering, said that he must have made a mistake.

If I hadn't have talked the job through with the mechanic first, I would have been none the wiser and got stung for an extra £45....not a huge amount but it's the principle of the thing.

It made me wonder if that was common practice with the service manager at that garage.

 

[rodp]

Nope!! It was the willy jeep you are thinking of - the "wilks" was Maurice wilks the designer...who based his design on the willy's jeep which also had a fold down front window for - you guessed it - military service.....

he designed the rover for his croft in Wales but the design was military bases - and was involved and developed by the military from the start.

Nope, you're wrong. The windscreen was in fact an optional extra to start with. And although the wilks brothers (Maurice and Spencer) designed it as a farm hack to replace the jeep there was never any intention of it being military. They reckoned a short term stopgap while waiting for steel to be taken off ration then they would produce luxury cars again.
The reason the windscreen folds flat is purely ease of manufacturing and not required on some vehicles.
It's all well documented, military use never even crossed their minds to start with. They realised how well the ex-military jeeps had sold, worn their own out on the farm in Anglesey, and reckoned that PROBABLY a home grown one would tide them over the steel shortage. The first one at least was running on a willys chassis. Then they took a chance on building their own chassis with top,bottom and two side plates welded at the corners. They hoped when they turned it over to weld the other two corners it would pull the chassis back into shape. It worked.

And yes, I'm sad and need to get a life. Until my memory started to fade there wasn't much about Land Rover history I didn't know. I've owned nearly every model, ran my own LR workshops for years, bought my first (series one 80") at 17 and still got a series and Disco now at coming 62.

And even now I do work for LR so I'm really sad (But at least I get to hear about things)

 

[gixer1]

If they were based on the willy's jeep - what was it...yup...a military vehicle...so it was infact based on a military vehicle..

 

[sauer]

Paul