Lead shot vs alternatives; Fieldsports channel scores an own-goal

[User00040]

Have a watch of this video.

I for one think that the interviews only confirm that the only viable options for shotgun cartridge loads are either lead with fibre wads or steel with plastic wads.

The toxicologists comment along the lines that 'everything is toxic in sufficient quantities' strikes the nail squarely on the head.

How many gamebirds do people eat a year?

Does eating a gamebird shot with lead equate to opening an unfired cartridge and tipping the whole lot of shot down your throat? I don't think so.

Talk of this '5-year voluntary deadline' should be thrown out.

 

[finnbear270]

We still have to deal with the case for wildfowl ingesting spent lead shot, similar to the anglers having to use non lead weighting.

 

[User00040]

We still have to deal with the case for wildfowl ingesting spent lead shot, similar to the anglers having to use non lead weighting.

I agree that it is not good to leave waste on the ground which causes indiscriminate harm.

However, birds, be they raptors or wildfowl, can die from ingesting all sorts of rubbish. From my understanding of the literature on 'lead poisoning in raptors' it comes down to the ingestion of a foreign body that the bird cannot break down, high accumulation of which eventually causes issues and death.

As far as I can tell, steel, bismuth and tungsten shot can't be digested either.

Having said that, on a remote beach in Scotland I found plastic wads that had washed up on shore (certainly no wildfowling on that site anyway). Not nice to see, but along with all the other rubbish, not to mention microplastics, we have much bigger problems.

 

[enfieldspares]

Richard Atkins! I used to write for him when he was editor of Target Gun magazine. What a pleasure to see him looking fit if perhaps not as hale and hearty as he once was. Very knowledgeable. Worth listening to. And I'd no idea that the UK had a huge hole with wolfram ore in it. But sending it to China to process it and then bring it back again to Europe once that is done is hardly sound environmental practice...but those in our ranks that advocate this lead ban will ignore that inconvenient truth.

 

[finnbear270]

Maybe it was the diet?

 

[bowji john]

Routes of body entry are - in descending order of effectiveness (i.e danger)

Lung - inhalation
Gut - ingestion
Skin - skin absorption

Ingestion of lead is not a hugely effective route of body entry - especially inorganic lead

Inorganic lead is much less of a risk than that of organic lead (e.g. lead tetra-ethyl - anti-knock additive that used to be added to petrol)

Even though lead, as a 'heavy metal', is a cumulative poison - the argument that ingestion of lead pellets when consuming shot birds is a good reason for banning lead is pretty weak

there are examples of lead poisoning through ingestion - the most famous being that of an individual who was always first into a pub each lunch time and had the first beer that had sat overnight in the lead pipes

This is unusual and indicative of chronic (i.e. long term) exposure

Perhaps if you eat duck every day including the pellets you might run the risk of lead encephalopathy

I suspect this is a political initiative seeking a medical and scientific validation for the argument

 

[kes]

I cant see any "sound evidence". I too have looked - therefore for me its - no change.
Now I wonder who said that - although any trace of having had this as a "policy" or having said it - has been expunged.

The "truth" is what we say it is "now".

 

[Stalker62]

Some years ago I went pigeon shooting with a pal. I was using (for the first time) a Webley & Scott SS which I had bought at that year's Game Fair.
After thirty four (count them!) straight misses I said to my mate, "What am I doing wrong?" after a quick inspection of me and my gun he announced that it did not fit me - not even close.
He must have seen how despondent I looked. In an attempt to identify another cause he asked, "What shells are you using?"
I threw him the bag of shells I had grabbed on the way out of the house.
He examined the contents and the next word to come out of his mouth did nothing to make me feel better...
"Bismuth!"
Might still be my most expensive day yet...

 

[Basil H]

caberslash - the problem in birds is a bit more complicated than simple ingestion of foreign bodies. Lead shot (or any other variety) is picked up as "grit" and retained in the gizzard where it is churned with food to grind it down. Lead is sparingly soluble under these warm agitated conditions and so some dissolved lead passes down the gut to be absorbed into the blood stream. As I recall it follows pathways much as dissolved calcium. Like other heavy metals in solution e.g. mercury it disrupts various large molecules in the body causing illness and death. The easiest place to see lead poisoning in birds is in swans such as at the WWT Welney reserve. Affected birds have the vent area stained green and the wings droop - they don't last long. Lead poisoning in birds was first recorded in the nineteenth century and is really beyond dispute.

Lead poisoning in humans however is quite another argument although not one I think we will win unfortunately.

 

[User00040]

caberslash - the problem in birds is a bit more complicated than simple ingestion of foreign bodies. Lead shot (or any other variety) is picked up as "grit" and retained in the gizzard where it is churned with food to grind it down. Lead is sparingly soluble under these warm agitated conditions and so some dissolved lead passes down the gut to be absorbed into the blood stream. As I recall it follows pathways much as dissolved calcium. Like other heavy metals in solution e.g. mercury it disrupts various large molecules in the body causing illness and death. The easiest place to see lead poisoning in birds is in swans such as at the WWT Welney reserve. Affected birds have the vent area stained green and the wings droop - they don't last long. Lead poisoning in birds was first recorded in the nineteenth century and is really beyond dispute.

Lead poisoning in humans however is quite another argument although not one I think we will win unfortunately.

Hi Basil H, thanks for taking the time to explain that.

I'm no expert but am always looking to learn more.

 

[bowji john]

Interesting info about wing droop - we get a similar neural myopathy that presents as wrist drop.

Same thing going on in both species ??

 

[bowji john]

not myopathy but a peripheral neuropathy

 

[kes]

Its called doing it on a wing and a prayer isnt it ?

 

[Redleg]

So a toxicologist doesn't know if Tungsten or bismuth is more or less toxic than lead.
I'm surprised he didn't know that tungsten is radioactive.