Lever action

[scrumbag]

So, lever actions. Lots of fun but do come with some quirks.

First thing to mention is you can get lever actions that shoot bottle neck cartridges like .308W from a box magazine

Current Production Box Mag
Henry Long Ranger (.223 Rem, .243W, 6.5 Creedmoor and .308W) - Easy to scope
Browning BLR (Quite a few chamberings from .22-250 up to 300 WM) - Easy to Scope
Winchester 1895 - Tends to be in .30-06 or .405W from what I can see of current run. Harder to scope as top eject

Out of production box Mag
Savage 99 - tend to be 308 family (Careful as some of the older chamberings eg 300 Savage might not be deer legal). Can be scope
Winchester 88 - 308 family of cartridges but a very rare rifle here in the UK.

So, the box mag fed guns above aren't so common. Much more common are the tube magazine fed guns and these really fall into 2 categories, top eject and side eject.

Side Eject - These make conventional scope mounting easier
Marlin 336 - Tends to be in .30-30 but others 35 Remington and 25-35 are out there but not common, 20" barrel should make English large deer legal.
Marlin 1894 - Pistol calibre rounds 38/357, 44 Spc / Mag and 45 Colt
Marlin 1895 - Tends to be in 45-70 or occasionally in .444 Marlin and 450 Marlin . Both English large deer legal

Henry Large Frame - Various models in 30-30 or 45-70
Henry Big Boy - Pistol calibre rounds 38/357, 44 Spc / Mag and 45 Colt

Winchester (18)94 AE (Angle Eject) - 30-30 type cartridges. Ejects out the top but throws cartridges sideways so conventional scope mounting possible

Rossi for 2023/24 is making what looks like a Marlin 336 clone

Mossberg - made a 30-30 Winchester 94 AE clone with traditional and tacticool verions but I don't think made anymore.

Top Eject - Needs a long eye relief "scout" scope or a red dot
Winchester (18)94 - 30-30 type cartridges but sometimes bigger (currently Winchester are selling a 450 Marlin version but whether you could get in UK another question)
Winchester 1886 - Tends to be 45-70 type cartridges though Pedersoli make an 1886 clone in 30-30
Winchester 1892 - "Pistol" calibres 38 / 357, 44 Spc / Mag and 45 Colt

Pedersoli - Make quite a few clones of Winchester 1886 (Or "updated" in the 1930s 71 version) in both classic and "all weather" versions

Rossi - known for making a Winchester 1892 clones with their Model 92. Interestingly makes a 92 in 454 Casull which is a 45 Colt lengthened running at ~60kpsi pressures. This has a reputation for bending the action bars if fed a steady diet of 454 full pressure loads so might not be great for longevity but easily makes large deer legal muzzle numbers
Chiappa - makes clones of the Winchester 1892 and 1886 designs in both traditional and all weather / "tacticool" versions

Takedowns - Chiappa and Winchester make various take down versions of 18886, 1892 and 94 if that is your thing (Chiappa are available in the UK, less sure about the Winchester ones)

If you are thinking pistol type cartidges, 357 will make muntjac / CWD legal but won't make roe legal in England or Scotland due to velocity requirements

44 mag will make English large deer legal but I noticed that is was easier to make 1700ftlbs ME with lighter bullets. What stopped me was that some of the lighter bullets are really designed to work at 44 Spc handgun velocities so I worried that if you hit a shoulder of something chunky at short range it might not do so well.

360 Buckhammer is a new cartridge wich looks interesting. Basically a lengthened 357 Magnum so you could load hunting ammo and also have soft cast plinking ammo. But it is very new and I don't know if any rifle manufactures will bring it to the UK

I went 44 mag as allows range work and gets to English large deer legal. Think I have loads that work with 240gr Nosler JSP (I'm a little leary of hollow points at the speeds needed) and 180gr Peregrine Hog - really need to chronograph them.

My Chiappa Alaskan Takedown:

Groups:

If you're getting 2 MOA, you're doing quite well and for the sub 100 yd ranges you're thinking of, will do fine.

Peregrine Hog at 50yds

Nosler 240gr JSP at 50

Hope I've helped rather than bored you with a rambling post. Whatever you choose, enjoy your shooting!

Scrummy

 

[scrumbag]

PS - Hopefully @alberta boy and @Muir will chime in as they know a huge amount about lever actions.

 

[Colonel Rimfire]

Novel idea, I didn't think many people really hunted here with lever guns!

Hmm I'm wondering what my .44 magnum would do to a bunny with hollow points!

Having shot Gallery rifle in comp for a number of years, I can attest to the longevity of a Marlin, the old ones are bomb proof our club had one in .357/.38 that must have had well over 50k rounds through it and it worked flawlessly


If it where me I would go with a Marlin as they are easier to mount a scope, due to side ejection, Winchester would be my second choice if I wanted an open sighted rifle
One thing I would avoid is anything made by Rossi I've seen them literally fall apart when RO-ing at the Phoenix

Browning BLR is another option and very nicely made, although in my opinion its just not as pretty as a Marlin or Winchester

 

[TringSaint]

I'll maybe have a poke around and see if I can find any data for shorter barrels. I don't reload so I'd be relying on decent factory ammo. Hornady seem to be the ones making the best attempt at modern-type hunting ammo for lever actions.

I don’t reload either but I use case prep services nr Bedford to make all my ammo, and he couldn’t find a mix that would get the necessary ME for a 16” 30-30.
No probs with a 45/70 hitting the ME, but that was too much for me - I’m only shooting deer, not T-rex’s!!!

I have also shot a 45/70 and it’s ok but not hugely accurate (50-75 yds is acceptable but beyond that it’s a bit wayward!!) and the recoil is just a bit unpleasant!!

 

[palmer_mike]

I looked at a Marlin dark in 30-30 for woodland deer, and whilst you can use it for muntjac and cwd you can’t hit the magic 1700ft/lbs ME for anything bigger without getting silly with the loading!

Hornady factory ammo makes the magic number…..

 

[Smellydog]

Hmm I'm wondering what my .44 magnum would do to a bunny with hollow points!

The pistol cal leverguns make very good small game getters, and also the rifle calibres.
Reversed pointy bullets work too.



Personally I don't get the fascination about every dam rifle needing to be scoped. If you want to shoot tight groups on paper get a bolt gun, it's just easier.
I've shot several rifles over the years with just open sights and it's fine in the field. It's getting to be a lost art.

 

[stubear]

Marlin 1895 GBL in .45-70

 

[SimpleSimon]

Marlin 1895 GBL in .45-70

That's right up my street...

 

[SimpleSimon]

Marlin 1895 GBL in .45-70

You're obviously pleased with the 1895? Is the 45-70 really as punishing on the recoil as some say? I think it's between 45-70 and 30-30 for me at the moment...

 

[SimpleSimon]

So, lever actions. Lots of fun but do come with some quirks.

First thing to mention is you can get lever actions that shoot bottle neck cartridges like .308W from a box magazine

Current Production Box Mag
Henry Long Ranger (.223 Rem, .243W, 6.5 Creedmoor and .308W) - Easy to scope
Browning BLR (Quite a few chamberings from .22-250 up to 300 WM) - Easy to Scope
Winchester 1895 - Tends to be in .30-06 or .405W from what I can see of current run. Harder to scope as top eject

Out of production box Mag
Savage 99 - tend to be 308 family (Careful as some of the older chamberings eg 300 Savage might not be deer legal). Can be scope
Winchester 88 - 308 family of cartridges but a very rare rifle here in the UK.

So, the box mag fed guns above aren't so common. Much more common are the tube magazine fed guns and these really fall into 2 categories, top eject and side eject.

Side Eject - These make conventional scope mounting easier
Marlin 336 - Tends to be in .30-30 but others 35 Remington and 25-35 are out there but not common, 20" barrel should make English large deer legal.
Marlin 1894 - Pistol calibre rounds 38/357, 44 Spc / Mag and 45 Colt
Marlin 1895 - Tends to be in 45-70 or occasionally in .444 Marlin and 450 Marlin . Both English large deer legal

Henry Large Frame - Various models in 30-30 or 45-70
Henry Big Boy - Pistol calibre rounds 38/357, 44 Spc / Mag and 45 Colt

Winchester (18)94 AE (Angle Eject) - 30-30 type cartridges. Ejects out the top but throws cartridges sideways so conventional scope mounting possible

Rossi for 2023/24 is making what looks like a Marlin 336 clone

Mossberg - made a 30-30 Winchester 94 AE clone with traditional and tacticool verions but I don't think made anymore.

Top Eject - Needs a long eye relief "scout" scope or a red dot
Winchester (18)94 - 30-30 type cartridges but sometimes bigger (currently Winchester are selling a 450 Marlin version but whether you could get in UK another question)
Winchester 1886 - Tends to be 45-70 type cartridges though Pedersoli make an 1886 clone in 30-30
Winchester 1892 - "Pistol" calibres 38 / 357, 44 Spc / Mag and 45 Colt

Pedersoli - Make quite a few clones of Winchester 1886 (Or "updated" in the 1930s 71 version) in both classic and "all weather" versions

Rossi - known for making a Winchester 1892 clones with their Model 92. Interestingly makes a 92 in 454 Casull which is a 45 Colt lengthened running at ~60kpsi pressures. This has a reputation for bending the action bars if fed a steady diet of 454 full pressure loads so might not be great for longevity but easily makes large deer legal muzzle numbers
Chiappa - makes clones of the Winchester 1892 and 1886 designs in both traditional and all weather / "tacticool" versions

Takedowns - Chiappa and Winchester make various take down versions of 18886, 1892 and 94 if that is your thing (Chiappa are available in the UK, less sure about the Winchester ones)

If you are thinking pistol type cartidges, 357 will make muntjac / CWD legal but won't make roe legal in England or Scotland due to velocity requirements

44 mag will make English large deer legal but I noticed that is was easier to make 1700ftlbs ME with lighter bullets. What stopped me was that some of the lighter bullets are really designed to work at 44 Spc handgun velocities so I worried that if you hit a shoulder of something chunky at short range it might not do so well.

360 Buckhammer is a new cartridge wich looks interesting. Basically a lengthened 357 Magnum so you could load hunting ammo and also have soft cast plinking ammo. But it is very new and I don't know if any rifle manufactures will bring it to the UK

I went 44 mag as allows range work and gets to English large deer legal. Think I have loads that work with 240gr Nosler JSP (I'm a little leary of hollow points at the speeds needed) and 180gr Peregrine Hog - really need to chronograph them.

My Chiappa Alaskan Takedown:

Groups:

If you're getting 2 MOA, you're doing quite well and for the sub 100 yd ranges you're thinking of, will do fine.

Peregrine Hog at 50yds

Nosler 240gr JSP at 50

Hope I've helped rather than bored you with a rambling post. Whatever you choose, enjoy your shooting!

Scrummy

Loads of good info there, thank you. I've never heard of Chiappa, but that takedown is pretty cool! Does it return to zero after being dismantled? How long is the barrel?

44mag isn't a calibre I'm familiar with - is there decent factory ammo available in English deer legal flavour?

 

[Smellydog]

Loads of good info there, thank you. I've never heard of Chiappa, but that takedown is pretty cool! Does it return to zero after being dismantled? How long is the barrel?

44mag isn't a calibre I'm familiar with - is there decent factory ammo available in English deer legal flavour?

Sellier Bellot 44 Magnum 240g

Sellier Bellot 44 Magnum 240g

www.simplyammo.co.uk

 

[stubear]

You're obviously pleased with the 1895? Is the 45-70 really as punishing on the recoil as some say? I think it's between 45-70 and 30-30 for me at the moment...

Yes very pleased with it - it’s a lot of fun to shoot and is a great woodland stalking rifle.

Recoil wise it depends on the load TBH! The trapdoor loads are probably about the same as a 12g magnum cartridge, but I have some red hot 300gn stuff which just about detached your retinas! Six of those and I’m done - and I’m a big guy (6’4” and over 100kg) and I like recoil, and six of those is enough for me.

 

[harrygrey382]

Rossi for 2023/24 is making what looks like a Marlin 336 clone

Rossi Rio Grande has been out for several years, as you describe it’s essentially a 336. Can’t remember if they do a 45-70. Maybe it’s not very available in the UK or they’re reintroducing it?

 

[harrygrey382]

I don’t reload either but I use case prep services nr Bedford to make all my ammo, and he couldn’t find a mix that would get the necessary ME for a 16” 30-30.
No probs with a 45/70 hitting the ME, but that was too much for me - I’m only shooting deer, not T-rex’s!!!

I have also shot a 45/70 and it’s ok but not hugely accurate (50-75 yds is acceptable but beyond that it’s a bit wayward!!) and the recoil is just a bit unpleasant!!

45-70 and Marlin 1895s in particular are pretty accurate for what they are, and very capable of taking deer sized game way beyond 70 yards. I’m comfortable out to about 130y with a receiver peep (210 being my max), but with a scope and a range finder they’d have heaps more in them. It’s the user and the sights that are the limiter not the round or the rifle. Recoil when hunting is not an issue

 

[scrumbag]

I’ve found geco is not bad accuracy for factory softs:

GECO .44 REM MAG

.44 REM MAG best GECO from Emmett & Stone Country Sports Ltd

www.emmettandstone.co.uk

 

[harrygrey382]

Browning BLR is another option and very nicely made, although in my opinion its just not as pretty as a Marlin or Winchester

they’re also frightfully complicated- removing the bolt for cleaning is not an option, the heavy trigger can only be adjusted by a very small number of specialist smiths and if it gets out of time you’re screwed

 

[scrumbag]

Loads of good info there, thank you. I've never heard of Chiappa, but that takedown is pretty cool! Does it return to zero after being dismantled? How long is the barrel?

44mag isn't a calibre I'm familiar with - is there decent factory ammo available in English deer legal flavour?

I find the return to zero pretty good. The scope goes with the barrel so that helps

 

[alberta boy]

You're obviously pleased with the 1895? Is the 45-70 really as punishing on the recoil as some say? I think it's between 45-70 and 30-30 for me at the moment...

It doesn't have to be , even with factory ammo , you have a wide range of velocities to choose from with a 45/70 . The standard velocity 405 gr ammo , original ballistics , is about 1350 fps . It's easy on the shoulder and will cleanly kill most things . I've used that loading on a number of Moose , Bears and Deer over the years , nothing went far . I have settled on a hard cast 405 gr at about 1600 fps for general use , it's not abusive to shoot and is extremely accurate in my rifles . One of the more popular 45/70 loadings out here , as far as factory ammo goes , is one of the various 300 gr hollow points . They were designed for taking smaller game like White-Tails , Mule Deer and Black Bear , something they do very well . If you're limited to factory ammo , that would be a great choice for the UK , as would the Hornady Leverevolution 325 gr FTX . Stalker308 used my , at the time , he took it home with him after the hunt , 1895 with this ammo to take a nice Black Bear while out hunting with me a few years back . He placed the shot perfectly at about 150 ? yards and instantly dropped it . I've seen a lot of Black Bears killed over the years , but that was the quickest kill on a bear I've ever seen . Inside of it's useful range , which I've found is about 150 yards , it's an absolutely reliable killer . I've owned a lot of Marlin levers , including 336's chambered in 30/30 , 35 Rem and 38/55 . I've come to prefer them to the Winchester 94's ( sorry Smellydog ), mostly because of the fact that they're far easier to scope , 94AE models excepted , and it only takes one screw to remove the bolt so it can be cleaned from the breach end .
As for 30/30s , they are designed to do exactly what you have in mind . The 170 gr loads are more popular here because a lot of people , mostly those that don't read gun magazines or read hunting forums , use them for game like Moose , Elk and large Bears , including one Inuit hunter I knew that shot Polars with his pre war Winchester 94 . I've come to prefer them , even for deer . That being said , our deer can easily go over the 300 pound mark . For the UK , I think the 150 gr loads would be a better choice . I wouldn't want to recommend a particular make or model , everyone has different tastes , but if you want to use a scope , I'd go with a Marlin or a Henry in either caliber . If you plan on using irons , pick the one that feels best in your hands and go from there . Let us know what you end up deciding on . Be warned , it is a sickness .

AB

 

[SimpleSimon]

It doesn't have to be , even with factory ammo , you have a wide range of velocities to choose from with a 45/70 . The standard velocity 405 gr ammo , original ballistics , is about 1350 fps . It's easy on the shoulder and will cleanly kill most things . I've used that loading on a number of Moose , Bears and Deer over the years , nothing went far . I have settled on a hard cast 405 gr at about 1600 fps for general use , it's not abusive to shoot and is extremely accurate in my rifles . One of the more popular 45/70 loadings out here , as far as factory ammo goes , is one of the various 300 gr hollow points . They were designed for taking smaller game like White-Tails , Mule Deer and Black Bear , something they do very well . If you're limited to factory ammo , that would be a great choice for the UK , as would the Hornady Leverevolution 325 gr FTX . Stalker308 used my , at the time , he took it home with him after the hunt , 1895 with this ammo to take a nice Black Bear while out hunting with me a few years back . He placed the shot perfectly at about 150 ? yards and instantly dropped it . I've seen a lot of Black Bears killed over the years , but that was the quickest kill on a bear I've ever seen . Inside of it's useful range , which I've found is about 150 yards , it's an absolutely reliable killer . I've owned a lot of Marlin levers , including 336's chambered in 30/30 , 35 Rem and 38/55 . I've come to prefer them to the Winchester 94's ( sorry Smellydog ), mostly because of the fact that they're far easier to scope , 94AE models excepted , and it only takes one screw to remove the bolt so it can be cleaned from the breach end .
As for 30/30s , they are designed to do exactly what you have in mind . The 170 gr loads are more popular here because a lot of people , mostly those that don't read gun magazines or read hunting forums , use them for game like Moose , Elk and large Bears , including one Inuit hunter I knew that shot Polars with his pre war Winchester 94 . I've come to prefer them , even for deer . That being said , our deer can easily go over the 300 pound mark . For the UK , I think the 150 gr loads would be a better choice . I wouldn't want to recommend a particular make or model , everyone has different tastes , but if you want to use a scope , I'd go with a Marlin or a Henry in either caliber . If you plan on using irons , pick the one that feels best in your hands and go from there . Let us know what you end up deciding on . Be warned , it is a sickness .

AB

Thank you, that's a comprehensive answer from a man who clearly knows!

I'm leaning towards a Marlin I think, I like the look of their stock and barrel finishes (call me a tart, but it needs to make me smile as well as serve its practical purpose!), and crucially they seem to be available from a selection of retailers over here. Unfortunately "where can I get one" and "can I get ammo for it" are deciding factors for UK shooters. I will most likely want to put a scope or some kind of red dot on, so you've more or less steered me the way I was already heading.

Speaking of optics, what are your thoughts on that? A scout scope with the lowest of low rings?

 

[LeftHandGuy]

I'm leaning towards a Marlin I think...

I love my 336 and would recommend it any day.

Speaking of optics, what are your thoughts on that? A scout scope with the lowest of low rings?

If you do, I would strongly urge you to at least try it with irons. I couldn't get on with a scope on mine, put a Skinner on it and haven't looked back.

Anything else I might have said on the subject has already been said by people with much more relevant experience than me!