Light barrel .223 for targets?

[25 Sharps]

Heavier the whole rifle is, easier it is to hold steady. Or are you being pernickity on the grammar ?

No, just interested. I get that if free standing but on a pod and rare bag the rifle is fairly easy to hold steady.

Plus my lightest rifle is probably my most accurate.

 

[25 Sharps]

Heat is one factor. Steadiness is another. Then there's barrel harmonics. Barrels do flex when fired and a stiff barrel is more predictable in it's behaviour. Less dependent on one or two specific loads for consistent accuracy.
At least that is, I think; the theory.

Yes, but that mostly relates to the size/weight of the barrel.

I was questioning why a heavy rifle, I.e. heavy stock, (as the post I quoted suggested) made the rifle more accurate.

 

[25 Sharps]

It doesn’t what it does is enable a faster twist barrel, that will push longer more efficiently allowing greater ranges before going transonic.
A 12” twist won’t handle 75 grain bullets well. They may be unstable long before 300 yards, going into the target off point of aim by 6-12 moa of more and it’s noticeable on paper as they don’t just make a .224” hole they are wobbling and the faster twist rate can (with some ammunition) cause the bullet to breakup in flight.

For 600 and beyond, I would recommend an 8” twist or faster. There is much more going on, but that’s a reasonably simple explanation.

Are you responding to me?

If so I understand barrel twists and ballistics and bullet stability due to rate of spin, I don’t see why a heavier stock is going to make a rifle more accurate.

 

[JamesH]

It doesn’t what it does is enable a faster twist barrel, that will push longer more efficiently allowing greater ranges before going transonic.
A 12” twist won’t handle 75 grain bullets well. They may be unstable long before 300 yards, going into the target off point of aim by 6-12 moa of more and it’s noticeable on paper as they don’t just make a .224” hole they are wobbling and the faster twist rate can (with some ammunition) cause the bullet to breakup in flight.

For 600 and beyond, I would recommend an 8” twist or faster. There is much more going on, but that’s a reasonably simple explanation.

The comments about twist are spot on but it doesn’t need a heavy barrel - My T3 lite has a 1:8 barrel.

I’m not disagreeing with the principles, just trying to encourage the OP that he will be fine with the rifle he has. Learning the format of the competition, the positions, mental process of firing each shot etc and finding the best ammo are all equally important factors in my mind.

 

[JTO]

Is anyone here using their sporter barrel .223 for occasional target shooting?
I bought a Howa 1500 .223 22inch sporter barrel 1 in 8 twist for foxing but I would like to take part in the occasional 300 meter comp from time to time,so far I've changed the stock to a PSE carbon fibre hunter stock and I've put a Timney 1.5 pound trigger in.Would this set up be ok to get me going or am I likely going to have to rebarrel in the future to a heavier profile barrel?

MagnetoSpeed Riflekuhl Barrel Cooler | Compact Design | Easy To Carry

Our MagnetoSpeed Riflekuhl Barrel Cooler cool's your rifle barrel in under 7 minutes. Features replaceable dust filter and chamber seal for increased cooling efficiency.

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[Steelrain]

MagnetoSpeed Riflekuhl Barrel Cooler | Compact Design | Easy To Carry

Our MagnetoSpeed Riflekuhl Barrel Cooler cool's your rifle barrel in under 7 minutes. Features replaceable dust filter and chamber seal for increased cooling efficiency.

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Interesting that,nice compact little item do you use 1 yourself I wonder how effective it would be.

 

[Steff]

Interesting that,nice compact little item do you use 1 yourself I wonder how effective it would be.

As it has been said before, a sporter weight will heat up faster but also cool down faster than heavier weight barrels.
I also use a pocket fan. But not for barrel cooling but for blowing away the mirage whenever this becomes necessary.

Heat is NOT a valid reason for heavy weight barrels in my eyes. It is rather shot to shot consistency through less vibration.

 

[badmolassesaccident]

How does weight help with accuracy?

No, just interested. I get that if free standing but on a pod and rare bag the rifle is fairly easy to hold steady.

Plus my lightest rifle is probably my most accurate.

If you have the common setup of a Harris bipod and some generic bag, you file is still going to move somewhat unpredictably under recoil. Not much, but it might cost you 0.5 MoA or even a bit more if you are shooting under time pressure. Heavier rifle is more forgiving of inconsistent recoil management.

The barrel is also stiffer, so less change in harmonics/natural frequency as it heats up.

 

[Bowland blades]

Is anyone here using their sporter barrel .223 for occasional target shooting?
I bought a Howa 1500 .223 22inch sporter barrel 1 in 8 twist for foxing but I would like to take part in the occasional 300 meter comp from time to time,so far I've changed the stock to a PSE carbon fibre hunter stock and I've put a Timney 1.5 pound trigger in.Would this set up be ok to get me going or am I likely going to have to rebarrel in the future to a heavier profile barrel?

depends on where you want to get to with this . Step one is of course to learn the sport and see if it really for you . TBF i would rather shoot comp with a stalking rifle than take an out and out comp gun stalking ( yeah done both ) . When i quit comp shooting i did not hesitate to sell off the scopes and rifles .
it is possible to shell walnuts with a sledge hammer of course

 

[Steelrain]

As it has been said before, a sporter weight will heat up faster but also cool down faster than heavier weight barrels.
I also use a pocket fan. But not for barrel cooling but for blowing away the mirage whenever this becomes necessary.

Heat is NOT a valid reason for heavy weight barrels in my eyes. It is rather shot to shot consistency through less vibration.

The little pocket fan for mirage issues is a handy way to help solve the problem Steff,will definitely add 1 to my range bag.

 

[Steelrain]

If you have the common setup of a Harris bipod and some generic bag, you file is still going to move somewhat unpredictably under recoil. Not much, but it might cost you 0.5 MoA or even a bit more if you are shooting under time pressure. Heavier rifle is more forgiving of inconsistent recoil management.

The barrel is also stiffer, so less change in harmonics/natural frequency as it heats up.

At the moment I will be just using a harris 6-9 swivel type bipod and a rear bag for my comps and when funds allow I'd like to upgrade my bipod for something that has a wider footprint mabye, but I'm not sure of what models are most suited.

 

[ejg]

Is anyone here using their sporter barrel .223 for occasional target shooting?
I bought a Howa 1500 .223 22inch sporter barrel 1 in 8 twist for foxing but I would like to take part in the occasional 300 meter comp from time to time,so far I've changed the stock to a PSE carbon fibre hunter stock and I've put a Timney 1.5 pound trigger in.Would this set up be ok to get me going or am I likely going to have to rebarrel in the future to a heavier profile barrel?

The sooner you start shooting the occasional 300m comp the better. You will learn more about shooting and getter to better results quicker than sitting at home thinking up what might be a better rifle. I would approach the 300yd by using 69gr match or sometimes if very little wind is present even 52gr match. Fit a heavy scope which can reduce launch angle change as well as help recoil back straight. After that concentrate on getting into a comfortable position when behind the rifle which sometimes means using a higher bipod. Have a look at Thomas Hauglands videos one of them.. he has a few very good tips.
Get shooting, you will learn more than talking about it.
edi

 

[Steelrain]

The sooner you start shooting the occasional 300m comp the better. You will learn more about shooting and getter to better results quicker than sitting at home thinking up what might be a better rifle. I would approach the 300yd by using 69gr match or sometimes if very little wind is present even 52gr match. Fit a heavy scope which can reduce launch angle change as well as help recoil back straight. After that concentrate on getting into a comfortable position when behind the rifle which sometimes means using a higher bipod. Have a look at Thomas Hauglands videos one of them.. he has a few very good tips.
Get shooting, you will learn more than talking about it.
edi

Hi edi,Years ago I've dabbled in these comps using a 223 remington vls and if memory serves me right I think I shot a comp in Co Kerry alongside yourself for a day I think you were shooting a .243 In one of your e-tac stocks if memory serves me right It's been along time since then and rifles and equipment have come along way so I'm slowly dipping my toes back into the water until I get going again. The hogue soft touch stock that my rifle came with had an unbelievable amount of flex in it and has such been binned, I purchased one of your hunter stocks from dom Byrne and a timney trigger also, and the rifles groups are now consistent,the stock has made a huge difference to how ridged the barreled action sits now

 

[badmolassesaccident]

At the moment I will be just using a harris 6-9 swivel type bipod and a rear bag for my comps and when funds allow I'd like to upgrade my bipod for something that has a wider footprint mabye, but I'm not sure of what models are most suited.

I'd say no problem. No need to spend more money until you understand what benefit spending it will bring.

The biggest effect, more than equipment, will be ammo your rifle likes. You can get <1 MoA with ammo which agrees with your rifle, or 3 MoA who ammo your rifle doesn't like.

 

[ejg]

Hi edi,Years ago I've dabbled in these comps using a 223 remington vls and if memory serves me right I think I shot a comp in Co Kerry alongside yourself for a day I think you were shooting a .243 In one of your e-tac stocks if memory serves me right It's been along time since then and rifles and equipment have come along way so I'm slowly dipping my toes back into the water until I get going again. The hogue soft touch stock that my rifle came with had an unbelievable amount of flex in it and has such been binned, I purchased one of your hunter stocks from dom Byrne and a timney trigger also, and the rifles groups are now consistent,the stock has made a huge difference to how ridged the barreled action sits now

I think I remember that outing. You shot extremely well with that remington rifle. Impressed quite a few including the owner of STL rifles Germany who travelled along with me.
I had a 22-250 Howa sporter that shot really well in one of our stocks without bedding however it would be better to have the epoxy bedding right. If you pass our area feel free to drop in to have a look if your stock might need epoxy bedding.
edi

 

[Steelrain]

I'd say no problem. No need to spend more money until you understand what benefit spending it will bring.

The biggest effect, more than equipment, will be ammo your rifle likes. You can get <1 MoA with ammo which agrees with your rifle, or 3 MoA who ammo your rifle doesn't like.

Your dead right, for me having to use off the shelf factory ammunition for comps is a big draw back and I'm left with having to chose a brand that's regularly available in my local shops,but it is what it is I suppose Hornady 75gr bthp match seems to be running well in my barrel so I'm going to run with this until I can find something that might work better.

 

[Steelrain]

I think I remember that outing. You shot extremely well with that remington rifle. Impressed quite a few including the owner of STL rifles Germany who travelled along with me.
I had a 22-250 Howa sporter that shot really well in one of our stocks without bedding however it would be better to have the epoxy bedding right. If you pass our area feel free to drop in to have a look if your stock might need epoxy bedding.
edi

Thanks Edi,appreciate that and I will definitely drop down to you soon with the rifle to see does it need bedding
I'd say my shooting that day came down to the good instruction and wind calls I was getting from the line

 

[kamyonsofor]

God I'd say I'd win a competition no bother then with tears of laughter running down the other shooters eyes looking at the fella at the end of the line after turning up with an air bed inflator and a generator to run it

Then when the doll drops out realises wrong bag oh dear.

 

[25 Sharps]

If you have the common setup of a Harris bipod and some generic bag, you file is still going to move somewhat unpredictably under recoil. Not much, but it might cost you 0.5 MoA or even a bit more if you are shooting under time pressure. Heavier rifle is more forgiving of inconsistent recoil management.

The barrel is also stiffer, so less change in harmonics/natural frequency as it heats up.

So as said above, the heavier rifle accommodates sloppy technique more than the rifle is inherently more accurate?

 

[badmolassesaccident]

So as said above, the heavier rifle accommodates sloppy technique more than the rifle is inherently more accurate?

I'd say the heavy rifle is inherently more accurate for rapid fire for two reasons:

- repeated recoil introduces fatigue into the shooter, which leads to a deterioration in recoil management
- repeated firing heats up a skinny barrel fast, which changes the harmonics in an already flexible lump of metal, which change the point of impact