Making stalking more accessible
- Thread starter Dukesarcher
- Start date
None of them!
alberta boy
Well-Known Member
Interesting thread . To be honest , with the amount of space available and the number of people looking for stalking opportunities , your system works quite well . Hunting is an expensive hobby where ever you live . In the UK you have to pay lease holders , land owners , etc , for a hunt . Here we don't , it's actually illegal to accept money for hunting access on your property , you own the land , not the game . It happens , but it's frowned on .
On the surface , it may appear quite cheap to hunt in Alberta , in reality it's anything but . To give you an example , this year , my tags cost about $ 200 CDN . That includes , Elk , Mule Deer , White-Tail ( three animals ) and bird game ( daily limits ) . We hunt on public land with no fees , so far , so good . Where it adds up is the equipment necessary to access our hunting area . You need a 4 wheel drive to access the area I hunt in . The limited road access is rudimentary at best . If the weather turns , and it always does , you will fight to get out even with a 4x4 . I just spent $2000 on good off road tires for our last hunt . That just gets you to your area . You then need to get back in where the game is . I hunt on foot , but I'm too old ( lazy ?) to pack up to 1000 pounds of animal out of the bush . I've done it many times as a younger man , one Moose took me three days to pack out , not fun . That's where ATV's come in . Most people here use a Quad of one form or another . They work for about 80% of what we do , it's the last 20% that'll kill you . We shot a nice Bull Moose last week , he was about 1000 pounds . Fortunately , my nephew dropped him in an accessible spot . Even then , it took six men , a 1100 cc side by side ATV and a winch , four hours to move it a few hundred yards .
We have huge tracks of Muskeg ( bog ) in northern Alberta . You will not cross it on a quad . This is where it starts to add up . There are a few machines that will , Argo's are the most common , we have an 8 wheel version . Bombardier makes excellent small wide track vehicles purpose made for this application . They're great machines . They also cost in excess of $20,000 CDN . You then need a trailer to transport these large off road vehicles , a good one , our lease roads will destroy cheap equipment very quickly .
Next is accommodation , first off , there isn't any . You have some lee way in your choices . Most take modified holiday trailers . We flip the axles for additional ground clearance on ours . It can drop to minus 20 C this time of year , with heavy snowfalls . I'll hunt under any conditions as long as I can sleep warm and dry . An outfitters ( wall ) tent will work just as well , but a good one , with an airtight stove , will cost you as much as a decent used trailer . You can sleep in a spike camp , again , I've done it , but sleeping on the ground in two feet of snow in minus 20C gets old very quickly .
It's a little over 600 kilometers to our preferred hunting area , so it's a fair amount in fuel costs . My truck has a 5.7 liter Hemi in it . I pulled a trailer ( loaded ) that distance . Everyone else was pulling camping trailers or flat beds with ATV's ( which burn fuel , one guy had a 200 gallon fuel tank on his toy hauler $$$$$ ).
When you add up what I have invested in equipment just to get out there , ball park , $60,000 CDN , it turns into a very expensive hunt . We are limited to a fraction of the animals you can take , and with our draw system , we have to wait , in some cases , years to hunt certain species . We have some amazing opportunities for hunting here , but it has it's downsides just like yours .
Sorry for the long post , I thought some of you might like an outside perspective . All in all , your system isn't that bad .
AB
On the surface , it may appear quite cheap to hunt in Alberta , in reality it's anything but . To give you an example , this year , my tags cost about $ 200 CDN . That includes , Elk , Mule Deer , White-Tail ( three animals ) and bird game ( daily limits ) . We hunt on public land with no fees , so far , so good . Where it adds up is the equipment necessary to access our hunting area . You need a 4 wheel drive to access the area I hunt in . The limited road access is rudimentary at best . If the weather turns , and it always does , you will fight to get out even with a 4x4 . I just spent $2000 on good off road tires for our last hunt . That just gets you to your area . You then need to get back in where the game is . I hunt on foot , but I'm too old ( lazy ?) to pack up to 1000 pounds of animal out of the bush . I've done it many times as a younger man , one Moose took me three days to pack out , not fun . That's where ATV's come in . Most people here use a Quad of one form or another . They work for about 80% of what we do , it's the last 20% that'll kill you . We shot a nice Bull Moose last week , he was about 1000 pounds . Fortunately , my nephew dropped him in an accessible spot . Even then , it took six men , a 1100 cc side by side ATV and a winch , four hours to move it a few hundred yards .
We have huge tracks of Muskeg ( bog ) in northern Alberta . You will not cross it on a quad . This is where it starts to add up . There are a few machines that will , Argo's are the most common , we have an 8 wheel version . Bombardier makes excellent small wide track vehicles purpose made for this application . They're great machines . They also cost in excess of $20,000 CDN . You then need a trailer to transport these large off road vehicles , a good one , our lease roads will destroy cheap equipment very quickly .
Next is accommodation , first off , there isn't any . You have some lee way in your choices . Most take modified holiday trailers . We flip the axles for additional ground clearance on ours . It can drop to minus 20 C this time of year , with heavy snowfalls . I'll hunt under any conditions as long as I can sleep warm and dry . An outfitters ( wall ) tent will work just as well , but a good one , with an airtight stove , will cost you as much as a decent used trailer . You can sleep in a spike camp , again , I've done it , but sleeping on the ground in two feet of snow in minus 20C gets old very quickly .
It's a little over 600 kilometers to our preferred hunting area , so it's a fair amount in fuel costs . My truck has a 5.7 liter Hemi in it . I pulled a trailer ( loaded ) that distance . Everyone else was pulling camping trailers or flat beds with ATV's ( which burn fuel , one guy had a 200 gallon fuel tank on his toy hauler $$$$$ ).
When you add up what I have invested in equipment just to get out there , ball park , $60,000 CDN , it turns into a very expensive hunt . We are limited to a fraction of the animals you can take , and with our draw system , we have to wait , in some cases , years to hunt certain species . We have some amazing opportunities for hunting here , but it has it's downsides just like yours .
Sorry for the long post , I thought some of you might like an outside perspective . All in all , your system isn't that bad .
AB
Only in some cases. I don't actually know what percentage of landowners charge people to shoot but around here a lot of stalkers/shooters don't pay anything at all. You certainly don't need to be well off to go shooting/stalking, you just need to be the right kind of person who landowners want on their land!
Orion
Well-Known Member
nun_hunter
Well-Known Member
I Went stalking this morning, shot a fox, saw a roe doe and a follower, heard a fallow grunting in the woods and saw three muntjac (never seen them this far East before) and managed to shoot one of them too. All this 10 mins from my house and for free. Just a bit of venison to the landowners as a thank you.
alberta boy
Well-Known Member
Well , there you go . Hunting in the UK sounds better all the time . Getting permission to hunt on private land here works on the same principal . I have about 4 to 4 1/2 sections that I've hunted for a very long time . I've become very good friends with the land owners over the years . Be polite and respectful and you'll always have somewhere to hunt .
Not to stir the pot , but why are some on here saying you need big dollars to hunt ? Or am I missing something ?
AB
alberta boy
Well-Known Member
Plebs ? Really ?
Ranger22
Well-Known Member
if you arent lucky enough to have access to free stalking you will have to pay, either for a paid stalk or rent for a piece of suitable land.
alberta boy
Well-Known Member
Is it hard to get permission , as in , is there a lot of competition for access to free stalking ?
nun_hunter
Well-Known Member
There is plenty of competition for good/easy stalking ground but the more marginal places, smaller plots fewer deer etc are quite common (at least round my parts). Problem is most people want a place to go where there are a lot of deer that almost guarantees success. I had one bit that always had sign of deer but I didn't actually shoot anything there for almost 2 years. Probably because I wasn't any good combined with the sporadic appearances of deer. Place I went today is approx 150 acres but half is a large wood and half is arable fields. Can almost guarantee I'll see fallow there at dusk, roe in the day and now muntjac too. Anyone could have knocked on their door and got access to it over the last few years but for what ever reason it went unasked for until I offered to shoot a fox I heard had killed some of their ducks.
alberta boy
Well-Known Member
I had a similar thing happen to me . Quite a few years ago , there was a local farm that had no hunting and no trespassing signs plastered everywhere . One afternoon , the owners wife showed up asking if we'd seen her dog as it had been missing for a few days . After a few days , the remains of the dog were found . The local coyotes had killed and eaten it . They were understandably upset and concerned for their remaining dogs safety . I offered to thin out the yotes for them , there were a lot of them , which they happily agreed to . After taking care of the coyotes , I asked if I could hunt White-Tails there in the fall . They were happy to let me on their land . That was 25 years ago , some of my biggest deer have come from that property and I'll be going there for Nov 1rst .
Apparently , they'd had some problems when they first moved there with people just walking out on their property and shooting without regard to safety . Some mouth breather put a bullet through the barn while John was working in it , after that , he just refused any access . I can't say that I blame him . It's the 1% that screws it up for everyone else . Some things are the same where ever you live .
AB
SaOsborne
Well-Known Member
Around my area stalking is so tied up its impossable (so far) to find any free stalking, all big estates and greedy owners, just wanting maximum cash. I have done everything from pest control to just plian asking with very little luck at getting an opening. I got onto one farm, was doing a good job thining the bunnies and got stalking too, great chap, all was well untill one day went to the owner to offer some venison to be told he sold the land earlier in the year! Opps, end of stalking, now hundreds of houses all over it.
I am lucky I am on one of the FC syndicates now, has been very good but the cull targets are set just too high by the FC and we are clearing the areas out. I meet locals in the areas all the time and many of them stalk ajacent land, all I hear from them is No's have dropped on thier land since we started. Sadly between our activity in the woods and the pressure all around I fear we are doing more damage than good now. Stalking is becoming less and less productive for a lot of miles travelled, but the quotas never change.
I dont agree that FC land can't be opened up to public use more freely for those who obtain the competance and can prove it. Yes most non-proffesional hunters cant put the time in of a full time Ranger, but as We have proven, the cull can easily be completed with a handful of competant stalkers. this could so easily be applied to far more areas?
If you travel north west from here there are a lot more opportunities for the small farms, where if you can get an initial door opener there are opportunities. Distance is the problem, not being in the area so getting to know the locals and being able to be seen and prove you are responsable etc, so again not an easy option. I get to get out with a good friend met on the forum in the area, so far for bunnies, great fun, so am now making a little headway, but he has taken 10 years to establish himself in the area.
I also get to go with my best bud from school who emigrated to Alberta Canada every 3 years, very different over there as Albert Boy has said. I get to hunt on a "non-resident alien" Tag (nothing like making you feel welcome) and pay a heap more than my bud does, but it is still very affordable hunting by U.K standards. Yes a lot of kit is needed, we travel 20-60 Km off the highway on oil roads into the bush. Dump the pickup and trailer at a well head, the head on out on a side by side. I am only able to hunt a very limited range of animals as a non-resident, but enjoy getting out at -20-30C with my bud to get his Moose tag filled. then the work starts! If the weather is real cold at least you can drive the machine into the muskeg or over the beaver dams. Its when its warm (-10) that its a real pain as tte groung frost just isnt deep enough!
The U.K has some wonderful stalking, just sadly controlled by too few, must admit the German system I think is better, you are a trained hunter, get allocated land and have to achieve the set targets. No animals are owned by anyone, so I was told by my now retired mentor, never done it myself!
I am lucky I am on one of the FC syndicates now, has been very good but the cull targets are set just too high by the FC and we are clearing the areas out. I meet locals in the areas all the time and many of them stalk ajacent land, all I hear from them is No's have dropped on thier land since we started. Sadly between our activity in the woods and the pressure all around I fear we are doing more damage than good now. Stalking is becoming less and less productive for a lot of miles travelled, but the quotas never change.
I dont agree that FC land can't be opened up to public use more freely for those who obtain the competance and can prove it. Yes most non-proffesional hunters cant put the time in of a full time Ranger, but as We have proven, the cull can easily be completed with a handful of competant stalkers. this could so easily be applied to far more areas?
If you travel north west from here there are a lot more opportunities for the small farms, where if you can get an initial door opener there are opportunities. Distance is the problem, not being in the area so getting to know the locals and being able to be seen and prove you are responsable etc, so again not an easy option. I get to get out with a good friend met on the forum in the area, so far for bunnies, great fun, so am now making a little headway, but he has taken 10 years to establish himself in the area.
I also get to go with my best bud from school who emigrated to Alberta Canada every 3 years, very different over there as Albert Boy has said. I get to hunt on a "non-resident alien" Tag (nothing like making you feel welcome) and pay a heap more than my bud does, but it is still very affordable hunting by U.K standards. Yes a lot of kit is needed, we travel 20-60 Km off the highway on oil roads into the bush. Dump the pickup and trailer at a well head, the head on out on a side by side. I am only able to hunt a very limited range of animals as a non-resident, but enjoy getting out at -20-30C with my bud to get his Moose tag filled. then the work starts! If the weather is real cold at least you can drive the machine into the muskeg or over the beaver dams. Its when its warm (-10) that its a real pain as tte groung frost just isnt deep enough!
The U.K has some wonderful stalking, just sadly controlled by too few, must admit the German system I think is better, you are a trained hunter, get allocated land and have to achieve the set targets. No animals are owned by anyone, so I was told by my now retired mentor, never done it myself!
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countrryboy
Well-Known Member
Not wanting to stir things but why are land owners greedy??
It's not land owners demanding large money but more often than not fellow stalkers trying to screw other stalkers over.
There is very few folk out there that do a jb for'X' amount of cash and ifur boss offered extra u'd turn it down.
It's not the landowners fault that some stalkers have more money than sense and are happy to throw it about (and sometimes syndicates can be just as bad)paying way over the odds
It's not land owners demanding large money but more often than not fellow stalkers trying to screw other stalkers over.
There is very few folk out there that do a jb for'X' amount of cash and ifur boss offered extra u'd turn it down.
It's not the landowners fault that some stalkers have more money than sense and are happy to throw it about (and sometimes syndicates can be just as bad)paying way over the odds
Erik Hamburger
Well-Known Member
Good point. There is plenty of FREE shooting and Stalking to be had, but you need to be prepared to do WHAT THE LANDOWNER WANTS which is not always the same as what you would want in an ideal situation. I know lots of guys who do not pay for their stalking -on prime land- and can keep all or most of the venison.
We get the odd fox too! As you say it has been a long road to get to the point I am now with a reasonable amount of deer ground, with all the air rifle time it's nearer 15 years of putting the effort in, I was pretty lucky in getting ground for vermin in the first place then it was down to hard work to get on from there.
This is it, for me it's a case of proving reliable and effective on the vermin that has lead to more opprtunities and ultimately to keeping opportunities as 2 farms I shoot have changed hands in the last year. If I, ably helped by a couple of forum members, didnt put the effort in with the vermin twice a week and be safe and reliable then I wouldn't have kept hold of the ground. It's also been a case of building the relationship with the landowners to bring guests on and now those that help with the vermin will get to help with the deer.
Ultimately it's the same with the deer, the farmers want to see the numbers down so I can't treat it as my own personal hunting ground to pick and choose when I shoot. I took on the deer on one piece of ground end ofFeb and after a survey with SaOsborne we set a target of 7 does by the end of march, I managed 5 over the month with 2-3 trips out a week. Hard work but the farmer immediately saw the impact and that's what was needed or they'll just get someone else in, should be a bit easier this year with the full doe season to get the numbers!!
So it does take a bit of luck to get deer ground but it also takes a lot of work to get and keep hold of it.
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