question about ivdd in small dog.< dachshund male. > vet wants to charge £3000 plus for a ct scan on the dog as he slipped into a dich

[Highlander]

Sounds like crossed wires to me, have a chat

I’m sorry but this is awful advice. Dachshunds can go from normal to paraplegic in a matter of hours, this has the potential to be a life threatening situation for the dog and manipulation is contraindicated.
£3k is very steep for a CT scan - I would have thought £1k to £1.5k is reasonable at this time but it isn’t clear what is included in that price.

I have seen, investigated and operated on many hundreds of dachshunds over the years. As a breed their intervertebral disc degenerate very early in life (by the age of 1 yr in most cases occording to the definitive PHD thesis by Hansen ). This leaves the discs highly susceptible to extruding and putting direct pressure on the spinal cord , often following a complex movement where flexion and torsion occur simultaneously. Remember on the manual handling courses not to bend and twist when lifting? It’s the same with dogs! The degenerate discs are literally a little time bomb sitting underneath the spinal cord. Often dogs will show early signs of back pain where they won’t climb steps but they can then go on to deteriorate and may end up losing coordination first, then strength and motor function and finally sensation. The important thing is to prevent them from deteriorating to the point where they lose sensation to the affected limbs as the likelihood of remaining able to walk after surgery reduces from 90% plus to 50%. Strict cage rest helps to reduce the chance of more disc material extruding into the vertebral canal next to the spinal cord which often causes deterioration. It often takes 4 weeks of confinement and some dogs will deteriorate anyway even with cage rest. If you see deterioration then get the imaging done if surgery is something you would consider to be feasible. If your dog becomes weak/wobbly or paraplegic then time is of the essence.

Well worth listening to.
And would agree 3K is on the high side.
CT and MRI imaging is a completely different imaging modality to ultrasound and hence a different price point. Comparing the costs to human CT / MRI private costs is unfortunately misleading simply because the case loads ie throughput, is totally different and the machines have to pay for themselves. Annual servicing costs alone for such machines is often in the high tens even low 3 figure thousands in some cases.
Hopefully the wee lad starts to show some improvement with cage rest and anti-inflammatories / pain killers.
In case response predictions, imaging is very valuable but you need to take account of where you are prepared to go in terms of financial load before committing to it.

 

[SikaSeeker]

But not a spinal cord compression…and it depends whether the dog walking again is important to the dog owner. Most greyhounds that have anything serious are euthanased. The ones that see the “bone man” would probably have got better on their own anyway!
Not trying to be dismissive of your opinions but there are times when expert assessment and precise, accurate treatment (including in this scenario decompressive spinal surgery are needed, and dachshunds with intervertebral disc disease is definitely one of them.

These are trained chiropractors, that won’t just start treatment on a dog without a proper review. It’s not just greyhounds they treat, you’ll find them at the greyhound track, most work out of other places. I’ve had a fair few dogs to them and they have put them right, from spaniels to lurchers.
That’s a vets view, there’s no other treatment pathway

 

[Selous]

These are trained chiropractors, that won’t just start treatment on a dog without a proper review. It’s not just greyhounds they treat, you’ll find them at the greyhound track, most work out of other places. I’ve had a fair few dogs to them and they have put them right, from spaniels to lurchers.
That’s a vets view, there’s no other treatment pathway

Trained by who with which qualifications? Sadly there are no recognised qualifications in veterinary chiropractic medicine in the UK that are recognised. It is totally unregulated as is veterinary physiotherapist. The difference is if you see a vet you will see a properly qualified person and if you see a recognised specialist vet in the subject concerned they will have undergone prolonged specialist training for an minimum of three years and passed rigorous examinations. Yes you will pay for that quality of advice but that will give the dog the very best chance of recovery from what is a critical illness. Chiropractors generally can temporarily release muscle spasms that provides symptomatic relief but frequently this recurs as the underlying cause has not been addressed. Performing manipulation on a dachshund with IVDD would be totally irresponsible and would put the dog at huge risk.

 

[SikaSeeker]

Trained by who with which qualifications? Sadly there are no recognised qualifications in veterinary chiropractic medicine in the UK that are recognised. It is totally unregulated as is veterinary physiotherapist. The difference is if you see a vet you will see a properly qualified person and if you see a recognised specialist vet in the subject concerned they will have undergone prolonged specialist training for an minimum of three years and passed rigorous examinations. Yes you will pay for that quality of advice but that will give the dog the very best chance of recovery from what is a critical illness. Chiropractors generally can temporarily release muscle spasms that provides symptomatic relief but frequently this recurs as the underlying cause has not been addressed. Performing manipulation on a dachshund with IVDD would be totally irresponsible and would put the dog at huge risk.

Training in Germany. There’s more treatment then surgical intervention. What I’ve seen is dogs getting back to work like new dogs after been reviewed by bonemen. It works up or down. I don’t think they’d put their hands on an animal with a diagnosis such as ivdd

 

[Selous]

Training in Germany. There’s more treatment than surgical intervention. What I’ve seen is dogs getting back to work like new dogs after been reviewed by bonemen. It works up or down. I don’t think they’d put their hands on an animal with a diagnosis such as ivdd

I’m sure you can train in witch doctory if you travel to Africa!! Sadly that says nothing about the training or the outcomes as many dogs will self cure with nothing more than the “tincture of time”. The same trick works for vets and owners too.
The risks of unregulated chiropractic manipulation have been documented here, albeit in humans.

Lee WT, Chu EC, Cheng WK. Chiropractor Perceptions of Non-registered Practitioners Utilizing Spinal Manipulative Therapy in Hong Kong: A Cross-Sectional Survey. Cureus. 2024 Oct 2;16(10):e70734. doi: 10.7759/cureus.70734. PMID: 39493129; PMCID: PMC11530708.

 

[SikaSeeker]

I’m sure you can train in witch doctory if you travel to Africa!! Sadly that says nothing about the training or the outcomes as many dogs will self cure with nothing more than the “tincture of time”. The same trick works for vets and owners too.
The risks of unregulated chiropractic manipulation have been documented here, albeit in humans.

Lee WT, Chu EC, Cheng WK. Chiropractor Perceptions of Non-registered Practitioners Utilizing Spinal Manipulative Therapy in Hong Kong: A Cross-Sectional Survey. Cureus. 2024 Oct 2;16(10):e70734. doi: 10.7759/cureus.70734. PMID: 39493129; PMCID: PMC11530708.

I totally get what you saying.
Is that an article relating to humans not dogs?

 

[Buchan]

Not many since it’s called a greyhound track, but beats giving the robbing vets money. A boneman can fix a lot of problems.

And miss or cause more.

 

[Buchan]

We are getting off thread here - how's the dog?

 

[MilesW]

For reference, in Australia which is definitely not a low cost country, a pet CT scan should top out at about 1500 pounds.
Are they doing it in house?

 

[SikaSeeker]

And miss or cause more.

Hasn’t happened any of mine yet. No more then human treatment, there’s alternatives too. A trip to the vets isn’t always the answer.

 

[ashray]

good morning ,thank you all for your replies. the dog will stay under the vets care at this time as the meds and crate rest seem to be helping ,he is able to stand and walk <although not perfect as his rear left leg appears to be a bit wobbly/weak but he can lift his leg to wee.> he does not want to be in his crate and barks to get out! but he will stay in it for his own good ,seems a lot happier in himself and when let out of his crate walks a lot bet but always on his lead out for a wee/empty out then back in the crate. we know it will take time but will follow the vets advice and talk to them about a ct scan ?<IF ITS NEEDED> thank you all.

 

[ashray]

quick up date ,the dog is back to his normal jumpy happy go lucky self ,no ct scan required vets happy and say he did not have ivdd but just a sprain. so at this time its treat the dog as normal ,he is well loved and looked after so hope he will carry on having his happy little life with no further issues . thank you all for your replies.on a side note my 13 year old patterdale has just had an x-ray as he has a persistent cough, one general anaesthetic, three x-ray photos and 20mins in the vets ....£1551.96 expensive but he is worth it .

 

[TringSaint]

this happend four days ago and dog was taken to vets that day, told to cage rest him and give him tablets discribed by the vet, he seems to be improving .this morning a bill arrived for £3000+ fo a ct scan booked for next week,the vet has not seen the dog since last monday so we dont understand why they have booked a ct scan and sent the bill before the scan.the dog is walking but will still have crate rest but we may be wrong but seems like the vet wants us to pay for an unneeded scan.i know you have not see the dog but wondered if ivdd is a commom in dashies and really costs that amount of money to treat.!!

Have you considered going to a dog chiropractor?

 

[Buchan]

quick up date ,the dog is back to his normal jumpy happy go lucky self ,no ct scan required vets happy and say he did not have ivdd but just a sprain. so at this time its treat the dog as normal ,he is well loved and looked after so hope he will carry on having his happy little life with no further issues . thank you all for your replies.on a side note my 13 year old patterdale has just had an x-ray as he has a persistent cough, one general anaesthetic, three x-ray photos and 20mins in the vets ....£1551.96 expensive but he is worth it .

That’s excellent to hear

 

[terrier1]

this happend four days ago and dog was taken to vets that day, told to cage rest him and give him tablets discribed by the vet, he seems to be improving .this morning a bill arrived for £3000+ fo a ct scan booked for next week,the vet has not seen the dog since last monday so we dont understand why they have booked a ct scan and sent the bill before the scan.the dog is walking but will still have crate rest but we may be wrong but seems like the vet wants us to pay for an unneeded scan.i know you have not see the dog but wondered if ivdd is a commom in dashies and really costs that amount of money to treat.!!

Ditch that vets a find a proper vet. It maybe a good idea to ask on here for a recommendation of a vet in your area.

 

[Buchan]

deleted as duplicate

 

[jon 12]

How many dachshunds do you see racing at a greyhound track

I think I've backed a few

 

[Ratel]

How many dachshunds do you see racing at a greyhound track

I think my little horror would probably win a race or two. One and a half hours chasing various deer over about three miles, should be good in the 800 metres.

 

[Bowland blades]

Too much pressure to feed venture capitalists I Guess

 

[Rusty Gate]

this happend four days ago and dog was taken to vets that day, told to cage rest him and give him tablets discribed by the vet, he seems to be improving .this morning a bill arrived for £3000+ fo a ct scan booked for next week,the vet has not seen the dog since last monday so we dont understand why they have booked a ct scan and sent the bill before the scan.the dog is walking but will still have crate rest but we may be wrong but seems like the vet wants us to pay for an unneeded scan.i know you have not see the dog but wondered if ivdd is a commom in dashies and really costs that amount of money to treat.!!

Factors & Beagles prone to spine issues, legs stop working. Mine was crated for a week, then crate & kitchen only second week, Third week ground floor, fourth floor & garden. Short gentle toilet break walk morning & evening for a couple of weeks. He had anti inflammatory also.