Questions about Applying for first FAC

[Themidlandstalker]

I wonder if the op joined a club for a time and then it would look better when asking for a centrefire for paid stalks. Least he would have safety and experience backing him.?

 

[artschool]

Actually I have.
It also states that the application should be looked at from the point of the applicant and not of an objector.
Something clearly not done in many cases.

can I just say that you and I probably agree about the way the police should be treating applications.

but we are talking about someones first application for an FAC not a political exercise in getting the police to toe the line.

 

[25 Sharps]

Hello,

i’m about to put in an application for my first FAC with Metropolitan police. I have a few questions I would love some guidance on:

- I previously held a shotgun certificate (issued in 2015 and recently expired) and I would like one also. Should i apply for this at the same time as the FAC? Is this what they call a coterminous application?

- I have no permission currently and plan to continue with paid stalks and Potentially join a syndicate after I have DSC1.

I have done 4 outings in Scotland (on one trip) and one outing in Devon. (1 kill in Scotland) I plan to do more during the time my application is pending. (And DSC1 if they’re running them) I just want to confirm i’m in a position to apply now?

- I’m thinking of applying for a .243 as I’d like to be able to shoot Deer and Fox. I’m thinking more land would be cleared for .243 than a larger caliber like a 6.5 and the Police more likely to grant me foxing with a .243

- Another option would be to apply for a 6.5 and then apply for a .223 for foxing if/when I get a permission for them. But I just don’t fancy knocking on doors asking for foxing permission without even owning a rifle cleared for it? (Seems like a hassle for the land owner?)

Best,
Tom

If you don’t have permission over land then the fox argument kind of goes out of the window.

If you have further trips for stalking booked you have good reason, so get the 6.5 and then you can go from there. Apply for a coterminous a SGC as it’s cheaper to both at the same time

 

[25 Sharps]

• It is always advisable to apply for your SGC with your FAC to keep the costs low. Also its easier to renew them together than at two different times.
• Accompany a letter explaining your reason behind applying for FAC and on the experiences you have had. References with contacts would be useful, if you have them.
• .243 is a good caliber to start with. Ask for permission for 'Any Other Lawful Quarry' (AOLQ) to avoid having restrictions on just Deer and Fox. Also worth asking for a .22 as farms may require help with rabbits.
• Moderators needs a separate line and farms prefers them. So include these than having to send a variation.
• If you have a gun safe with spare capacity, worth mentioning this within the letter.
• If you have any paid stalks booked for the future, worth mentioning the dates and if possible references for these.
• If there are any potential farms you know of, worth having a chat and if they were to give you a written permission, it strengthens your case

You will usually get a call while the application is being considered and Met Police is quite good. Be nice and polite and it usually helps. Also if the application is being denied, ask for the reason and what you could do to help with the application and ask for more time to get things in order. All the best.

If the op does not have permission he cannot apply for a .22 ‘just in case’.

As for your last point, if only it were that easy!

Getting an FAC is easier than getting permission to shoot over land, particularly for deer

 

[25 Sharps]

Think of what you want and the reason behind it. I suggested a .22 as its a handy caliber to have when around farms for small mammals. Vermin control is a good reason if you are planning to ask for permissions. Alternatively an air rifle would also suffice. If you don't see the need for it, please don't be compelled.

FFS.

planning to ask for permission IS NOT good reason, having permission with the relevant species present is good reason. Better off giving advice based on fact only or saying nothing before filling the OP with nonsensical ideas.

 

[25 Sharps]

Start with your local full bore rifle club. That's a good enough reason and the FAC might have restrictions, but at least its a good start. Also it does help to try a few, meet people etc.

You will have to be a full member before it is considered good reason which usually means a 6 month probationary period, legal minimum being 3 months probation but most clubs insist on 6.

 

[Sampo]

FFS.

planning to ask for permission IS NOT good reason, having permission with the relevant species present is good reason. Better off giving advice based on fact only or saying nothing before filling the OP with nonsensical ideas.

As a wise man once said, if you have nothing nice to say...

 

[Foxyboy43]

Call me old fashioned - the chap asked for advice and many folk with only good thoughts in their head have freely given their advice, presumably based on experience and/or opinion. The fact is that there is significant variance in interpretation of HOG between the UK's firearms licensing authorities which of course can lead to different and perhaps even unintentional conflicting advice from the various well-meaning SD posts. In my own part of the world I can assure you that with the very few boxes that the OP ticks at time of posting (when did "planning" for more stalking and doing DSC1 become acceptable anywhere in the UK??) he would probably have nil chance of getting an air rifle never mind a c/f rifle - hence the join a club initially advice. I also do not get your view that he has more experience than many who are given an FAC - there must be some very easy going FEOs/Licensing authorities out there - again, not in my part of the world - thank heaven!

 

[25 Sharps]

As a wise man once said, if you have nothing nice to say...

Should have been, if you’ve nothing correct to say!

You’re giving incorrect advice and if no one corrects you then the OP is going to take it as correct.

 

[tom.h]

Thanks everyone who gave feedback and ideas. I understand it's not straightforward and the various forces have different views. I'll make the application and keep getting experience during that time.

 

[25 Sharps]

You want a centrefire rifle? Well, it's your right in law. Providing you meet the criteria, the FAC will be granted, no ifs, buts, or what-abouts. Booking paid stalks is a good enough justification in it's own right to warrant being granted an FAC. There's no secret society to join, no sneaky handshake you need to master, and there's absolutely no need whatsoever to be jumping through the hoops some posters are advocating. You'll learn all you need to by getting out there with a decent guide and just doing it.

Fecks sake, I'd almost say some are deliberately trying to make it sound harder than it needs to be. And for what it's worth, unless you like being dictated to by little Hitlers with a God complex I'd stay as far away from any 'club' as you can possibly get.

If you ever manage to get anywhere near Forfar I'LL take you out, free of charge

Some clubs are nothing like that

 

[Foxyboy43]

Thanks everyone who gave feedback and ideas. I understand it's not straightforward and the various forces have different views. I'll make the application and keep getting experience during that time.

Gud man! Best of luck in your application and very many happy hours of shooting - may your aim be straight and the wind always in your face!!
Sadly this will almost certainly lead you down that dark path to reloading. And you thought the SD advice you have already was helpful/confusing/contradictory etc..... Be afraid, be very afraid.......

 

[Woodsmoke]

Thanks everyone who gave feedback and ideas

Nearly forgot to mention this. You will, of course, need a .270

 

[Overlay]

Join a club for target shooting ( there’s your ongoing safety training ) it will help, when everything settles down get your DSC 1 sorted ( that will help) regular stalking with a outfitter and find some permissions even if it’s for an air rifle or a 22 rimmy its painting the right picture to your FEC to show your on the case to progressing through safety training, real time stalking backed up with a course or two it all looks good.

everything is a bit upside down with the covid thing, BSRC are a good club to join they will help you in all firearms matters to get you up there, get yourself in the loop

cailbre wise for foxing and deer you’d be hard pressed to find a better caliber the 6.5 x 55 is a fantastic all round caliber, very versatile in bullet type and weight to suit foxing or a Red

good luck, and just keep on plugging away

 

[Sonicdmb73]

can I just say that you and I probably agree about the way the police should be treating applications.

but we are talking about someones first application for an FAC not a political exercise in getting the police to toe the line.

Quite possibly but there’s plenty of people who have had aFAC granted under exactly his circumstances.
Yes no doubt some have been refused, or more likely told it’s better to stop their application than get refused (they did that to me when I applied for my first SGC).
But having already done some paid stalking and planning to book (or actually booking them) along with looking at DSC1. The OP has more than demonstrated Good Reason, and has some experience (albeit not much) that’s far more relevant than joining a target shooting club. Where firing points and safety procedures are very regimented and don’t vary like the requirement when stalking due to changing terrain etc.

One thing for certain is unless the OP actually applies then they will never known. Each application is supposed to be judged on its own merits. Ok so that’s not always the case but, if you have Good Reason. Are of good character and fulfil the other requirements as far as health and police record (or lack thereof). Then you should get a certificate, if you don’t you can appeal. The threat of an appeal is enough when your application is justified in some cases to get the decision changed. But the fact is you don’t need land, you do need to have booked (previously or for the future) some stalking. Having membership of one or more of the shooting organisations along with the insurance cover etc that provides. All add up as does enrolling on DSC1 (certainly for some forces that like to try insist (wrongly) that you need it. It all adds up to presenting a case that looks like a low risk to the issuing force, because that’s how they look at it. Rather than the correct way that they should grant unless there’s good reason not to.

 

[T.eddie]

I've just applied for my first FAC, I spoke with my FEO before hand (essex) and he advised if I'm doing paid stalking it's fine and that I should apply for enough to cover the right variety of deer so have gone for a .22-.250 for muntjac and CWD, .243 for medium sized deer and. 308 for larger I.e. red stags. Only sent this off today sp hopefully it pans out okay
I also advised ill be doing my DSC1 once I have gained more experience

 

[Woodsmoke]

Best of luck with it. I'm sure it'll be fine

 

[VSS]

It really is very simple. Just buy a farm. You will be penniless for the rest of your life, but you'll find that getting a FAC - and all subsequent renewals - are an absolute breeze!

Oh, and this:

Nearly forgot to mention this. You will, of course, need a .270

 

[rookyshot]

Hello,

i’m about to put in an application for my first FAC with Metropolitan police. I have a few questions I would love some guidance on:

- I previously held a shotgun certificate (issued in 2015 and recently expired) and I would like one also. Should i apply for this at the same time as the FAC? Is this what they call a coterminous application?

- I have no permission currently and plan to continue with paid stalks and Potentially join a syndicate after I have DSC1.

I have done 4 outings in Scotland (on one trip) and one outing in Devon. (1 kill in Scotland) I plan to do more during the time my application is pending. (And DSC1 if they’re running them) I just want to confirm i’m in a position to apply now?

- I’m thinking of applying for a .243 as I’d like to be able to shoot Deer and Fox. I’m thinking more land would be cleared for .243 than a larger caliber like a 6.5 and the Police more likely to grant me foxing with a .243

- Another option would be to apply for a 6.5 and then apply for a .223 for foxing if/when I get a permission for them. But I just don’t fancy knocking on doors asking for foxing permission without even owning a rifle cleared for it? (Seems like a hassle for the land owner?)

Best,
Tom

Hi Tom

I successful got my first FAC grant from Thames Valley just over a year ago and despite living on a farm which holds both small Deer and Fox I had to submit two detailed references specifically calling out my ability to safely handle a rifle in the field. My FEO was not interested in target club memberships or DSC1 qualification’s, it was all about hard evidence from two other stalkers that I have demonstrated a good understanding of rifle safety when out stalking. Fortunately a good friend of mine is a highly experienced stalker and rifle coach and was more than happy to provide a reference having shot with me and a member of the forum here also was kind enough to provide the second reference having been out with them and successfully conducted safe stalks.

In respect of calibers my initial grant was for a 223 and 22lr as my land only held small deer and fox and I couldn’t evidence any immediate plans to stalk larger species. A year on with some more experience under my belt it was a very smooth process to add a .243 to my FAC and have my land cleared for it.

Hopefully this may help you a bit. I had some fantastic help from members of the Stalking Directory as I navigated this process. Just be patient, stay committed and you’ll get there I’m sure.

 

[Roestalker39]

Hi Tom

I successful got my first FAC grant from Thames Valley just over a year ago and despite living on a farm which holds both small Deer and Fox I had to submit two detailed references specifically calling out my ability to safely handle a rifle in the field. My FEO was not interested in target club memberships or DSC1 qualification’s, it was all about hard evidence from two other stalkers that I have demonstrated a good understanding of rifle safety when out stalking. Fortunately a good friend of mine is a highly experienced stalker and rifle coach and was more than happy to provide a reference having shot with me and a member of the forum here also was kind enough to provide the second reference having been out with them and successfully conducted safe stalks.

In respect of calibers my initial grant was for a 223 and 22lr as my land only held small deer and fox and I couldn’t evidence any immediate plans to stalk larger species. A year on with some more experience under my belt it was a very smooth process to add a .243 to my FAC and have my land cleared for it.

Hopefully this may help you a bit. I had some fantastic help from members of the Stalking Directory as I navigated this process. Just be patient, stay committed and you’ll get there I’m sure.

^ this , experience means everything dsc bits of paper do not , find a mentor or get out stalking with a pro stalker and get a letter detailing that experience