Rabbit shooting.

[Frank Homes]

I read a report in a daily newspaper yesterday that VHD has reduced the rabbit population in the UK by about 50% in the last 20 years and short of immunization there is no cure for it. I wonder whether they will recover like they did from Myxy?

 

[FISH BOY]

A 40 acre patch of ground I have in Essex has massively been hit by mixy last year. Few years ago used to bag 100+ a season - last year only 27...

 

[User00025]

I tried Googling for that name and none found. If you have a link, please post it.BTW, not all .17HMR rounds are frangible, and I never said that. I fully expect the 20gr hollowpoints to have the potential to richochet. My experience with the 17gr ballistic tips is that they do not. Like I say, hundreds of rounds and counting...on the same land where I experienced two .22 richochets. I can only say as I find.

I also speak as I find after wearing out one .17HMR rifle and have had 22/250's ricochet as well.
Article by Lewis Potter, retired rifle maker and author, entitled Hit or Myth in Spring 2018 NGO "Keeping the Balance" magazine. Very enlightening regarding 17 & 20 grain bullets. Dispels the myth of a blade of grass completely.

 

[25 Sharps]

I tried Googling for that name and none found. If you have a link, please post it.BTW, not all .17HMR rounds are frangible, and I never said that. I fully expect the 20gr hollowpoints to have the potential to richochet. My experience with the 17gr ballistic tips is that they do not. Like I say, hundreds of rounds and counting...on the same land where I experienced two .22 richochets. I can only say as I find.

Ive had more audible ricochets with 17 gr HMR than 30 gr v-max in .22 mag and I didn't have the HMR that long!

 

[25 Sharps]

I also speak as I find after wearing out one .17HMR rifle and have had 22/250's ricochet as well.
Article by Lewis Potter, retired rifle maker and author, entitled Hit or Myth in Spring 2018 NGO "Keeping the Balance" magazine. Very enlightening regarding 17 & 20 grain bullets. Dispels the myth of a blade of grass completely.

I think a link was posted on here and it did dispel the myth, at the end of the day the HMR pills are going relatively slowly and have very little mass to break the jacket up

 

[25 Sharps]

Fleas here mean that any myxomatosis is being well vectored generally,do you have much 'myxo' in the UK?

4 rabbits in the drop traps this morning, seethings of it in about 5-10% that we shoot, horrible, having said that doing a Myxi rabbit clearance got me 600 + acres of deer permission so not all bad.

 

[25 Sharps]

In having shot for the meat trade its head shots or nothing..btw that has got nothing to do with your stupid comment re manliness..rabbits put their heads up when the correct sound is made..BANG! but you didn't know that

It never hurts to be able to shoot better!

Its only a very niche trade over here, so if doing it for pure pest control then they just need to be shot humanely, .22 hornet being my favourite bunny round.

'Disrupted' carcasses go to a local wildlife rescue charity so no wastage

 

[zambezi]

I think a link was posted on here and it did dispel the myth, at the end of the day the HMR pills are going relatively slowly and have very little mass to break the jacket up

The NGO offered no online access to the article, but have posted me a complimentary copy of the Spring 2018 magazine. I am always interested in data driven opinion. If this article has data on the round I use, and can demonstrate examples of failed projectile deformation on first impact, then I will have learnt something which I have yet to experience personally. And forearmed is forewarned. I look forward to reading the article and reviewing the data.

 

[kennyc]

In having shot for the meat trade its head shots or nothing..btw that has got nothing to do with your stupid comment re manliness..rabbits put their heads up when the correct sound is made..BANG! but you didn't know that

It never hurts to be able to shoot better!

touchy today aren't we I don't shoot for the meat trade, I shoot to lower the numbers, I'm not worried about the financial implications of taking a body shot, its humane ,its available, take it and move onto the next one and the fact that last nights rabbits were all headshot is just the way the shots worked out

 

[25 Sharps]

The NGO offered no online access to the article, but have posted me a complimentary copy of the Spring 2018 magazine. I am always interested in data driven opinion. If this article has data on the round I use, and can demonstrate examples of failed projectile deformation on first impact, then I will have learnt something which I have yet to experience personally. And forearmed is forewarned. I look forward to reading the article and reviewing the data.

I must be a different article then the one I read was testing 17s and 20s through various substrates like doubled up cardboard with something (can't remember what) to catch the bullets, overall result was the 17s don't break up nearly as much as people have been led to believe, possibly could have been in the BASC magazine thinking about it.

Out of interest the fine arc of dust you see behind the bullet, is that at night or middle of the day?

 

[25 Sharps]

touchy today aren't we I don't shoot for the meat trade, I shoot to lower the numbers, I'm not worried about the financial implications of taking a body shot, its humane ,its available, take it and move onto the next one and the fact that last nights rabbits were all headshot is just the way the shots worked out

Off sticks with a .22 air rifle out to 45 - 72 yards - to be fair body shots weren't an option with grass that long, glad we had the thermal to find them!!

 

[zambezi]

Lewis Potter did a very detailed report on the ,17HMR and it will surprise you regarding bullet frangibility etc.

I now have a printed copy of that article. He definitely asserts that the round I am using requires more resistance than a rhubarb leaf to commence deformation. In his tests, it required quarter inch plywood to achieve that. The net take away being that we should consider, and require, the same safe back stop for any .17HMR ammunition as we would for any other calibre. And that seems sound advice.

Helpfully Lewis published pictures of his test rigs. If time and opportunity allow, I will build my own test rig and look to replicate some aspects. One difference I would incorporate: a greater distance between first resistive surface and first measurement plane. Lewis' rig seems to have had sub 20cm between those. I wonder whether [at circa 2500fp/s] if the measurement plane was too close to detect incipient projectile fragmentation?

 

[User00025]

I now have a printed copy of that article. He definitely asserts that the round I am using requires more resistance than a rhubarb leaf to commence deformation. In his tests, it required quarter inch plywood to achieve that. The net take away being that we should consider, and require, the same safe back stop for any .17HMR ammunition as we would for any other calibre. And that seems sound advice.

Helpfully Lewis published pictures of his test rigs. If time and opportunity allow, I will build my own test rig and look to replicate some aspects. One difference I would incorporate: a greater distance between first resistive surface and first measurement plane. Lewis' rig seems to have had sub 20cm between those. I wonder whether [at circa 2500fp/s] if the measurement plane was too close to detect incipient projectile fragmentation?

Whatever ! Lew was a great rifle smith and well respected in his field. A great pity he packed up but I once remember him many years ago doing a lecture on small and fast versus slow and heavy. It was .243 v I think .444 (deer legal anyway) and he produced two carcasses, one shot with each. The entry holes didn't look much different and the small calibre exit hole only slightly larger. The big difference was when skinned, the meat damage caused by the smaller round was much more extensive than the much heavier round. It was an eye opener to most of us with a blood damaged rib cage maybe 12" x 15" with the .243 and 6" dia with the big round. Again big and heavy does the trick, small and light leaves quite a slick.
Oh, and I went out this morning with two 1/2" ply pieces 3 ft apart 17gr Rem ammo. Neat hole in first, slightly larger in second, bullet about half intact in sand backstop, range 75 paces.

 

[zambezi]

...I went out this morning with two 1/2" ply pieces 3 ft apart 17gr Rem ammo. Neat hole in first, slightly larger in second, bullet about half intact in sand backstop, range 75 paces.

I appreciate the feedback. And your set up looks to be a good benchmark dimension-wise, and similar to what I had in mind. I will look to repeat the same with the ballistic tip Hornady 17gr V-Max round I shoot. I just re-read Lewis' article. He describes the Hornady 17gr V-Max as the most "fragile" .17HMR projectile.