Interesting. Mine doesn't mention "practice", just "zeroing". The licence has to go back next week so I might get them to add that to it.
Thanks Alan.
Range usage
- Thread starter Longstrider
- Start date
Interesting. Mine doesn't mention "practice", just "zeroing". The licence has to go back next week so I might get them to add that to it.
Thanks Alan.
load development, practice, craic, mickey taking. It can be a great humbler for the "I can hit this at that range off hand" when usually their stuff isn't zeroed and they can't shoot for toffee.
Trigger time is good, don't knock it.
I have land over which I shoot, but I am there by the good grace of the owners.
Trigger time is good, don't knock it.
I have land over which I shoot, but I am there by the good grace of the owners.
Although I am a member of a Home Office Approved Club which your FAO seems to want, the "& practice" bit does not seem to be linked to or dependent on it according to page 233 of HOG 2016 which suggests...
"1. Quarry Shooting (for vermin, fox or deer)
• The *calibre RIFLE/COMBINATION/SMOOTH-BORE GUN/SOUND MODERATOR and ammunition shall be used for shooting vermin including fox, and ground game/ deer (delete as appropriate) and any other lawful quarry, and for zeroing-practice on ranges, on land deemed suitable by the chief officer of police for the area where the land is situated and over which the holder has lawful authority to shoot."
My embolding.
I am sure they are confused between shooting at a target for zeroing or practice and competitive "Target Shooting" as an independent activity.
Alan
My certificate conditions, if it helps persuade/convince...
Thank you Alan. Good evidence for my chat with them next week.
I think that's an interesting point, and the answer is perhaps that in some areas/cases the FLD's mania for controlling (for which read 'making inconvenient') every aspect of FAC-holders' use of firearms goes well beyond the remit of maintaining public safety.
A friend of mine who is a member of a club where he does some zeroing/practising asked for 'target-shooting' to be added to his certificate (he's not blessed, as I am, wth GMP). They said they wanted evidence that he was intending to do target-shooting, at which point he gave up the quest to have his conditions amended on the grounds that it seemed unlikely that any judge would take seriously a police force that attempted to sanction him in any way for using a rifle which he lawfully held at on a range belonging to a rifle club of which he was a member.
It's worth considering, by the by, that the various terms used (target-shooting, target-practice, etc) are not as far as I'm aware defined anywhere, and one ('zeroing-practice') seems to be made-up.
Also interesting that Alantoo's 'target-shooting' condition mandates the use of 'non expanding' (presumably they mean 'non-expanding') ammuntion for that practice. Heaven knows what that's about!
Finally, it's worth remembering that other than the statuory ones, conditions on FACs are 'discretionary', meaning that the intention of the Act is to allow the Police to apply extra conditions if necessary - but with the implication that this will not be a particularly common occurence.
How that was allowed to drift into the current nonsensical conditions-industry is a matter of conjecture, though it clearly fits the Police/HO agenda of making life as awkward as possible for FAC-holders.
The appearance of the ALQ condition and its variants, i.e. quarry 'conditions' that might as well not be there at all, made me think that the great behemoth had inadvertently grabbed its own tail and was about to eat itself by mistake - though this has sadly not come to pass.
The deer man
Well-Known Member
Just to add to the above the new Home Office Guidance to the Police does specify ranges but does not go into it in detail but this a guide to the Police only and not the law itself. The following is an extract I took from the Firearms Act 1968 and which I used to show the FLO as mentioned in my previous post...
Zeroing
3.31 However, the use of the phrase “in connection with” means that it is acceptable for shooters to use expanding ammunition to zero their rifles with the ammunition they will be using in the field provided it is for one or more of the four activities listed above. Zeroing might also include training and testing, whether on a rifle range or other suitable land. These exemptions apply only to
use in Great Britain, not overseas.
3.32 The possession of expanding ammunition for target shooting or any competition use is not allowed. Applicants wishing to possess expanding ammunition for any other purposes (for example, to zero a large calibre rifle for big game hunting abroad) should also be refused (see also paragraph 3.17). There should be no prescribed limits set on the number of rounds of ammunition that can be expended during zeroing, although this will need to be compatible with these functions and consistent with the overall limits on possession and purchase.
10.35(c) Zeroing Deer stalkers and vermin shooters should be allowed to zero. The relevant parts of the appropriate condition in Appendix 3 should be added to a certificate of somebody who is permitted to possess a firearm for these purposes
Zeroing
3.31 However, the use of the phrase “in connection with” means that it is acceptable for shooters to use expanding ammunition to zero their rifles with the ammunition they will be using in the field provided it is for one or more of the four activities listed above. Zeroing might also include training and testing, whether on a rifle range or other suitable land. These exemptions apply only to
use in Great Britain, not overseas.
3.32 The possession of expanding ammunition for target shooting or any competition use is not allowed. Applicants wishing to possess expanding ammunition for any other purposes (for example, to zero a large calibre rifle for big game hunting abroad) should also be refused (see also paragraph 3.17). There should be no prescribed limits set on the number of rounds of ammunition that can be expended during zeroing, although this will need to be compatible with these functions and consistent with the overall limits on possession and purchase.
10.35(c) Zeroing Deer stalkers and vermin shooters should be allowed to zero. The relevant parts of the appropriate condition in Appendix 3 should be added to a certificate of somebody who is permitted to possess a firearm for these purposes
I'm not sure that's from the Firearms Act?
In any case, I think since bullets designed to expand ceased to be prohibited under S5 there is no longer any definition of them in law to support differentiation between them and the other kinds of bullet available - whether those other bullets actually do expand (e.g. A-Max, target hollowpoints) or not (most FMJs)
Alantoo ... "Do you not practise your knife skills at all? Do you just rely on the quality of your blade and the edge as it came from the factory when competing? "
I was, and am, perfectly happy to rely on the quality of the blade and the edge as it came from the factory. You see, I was/am that 'factory'. I won the first cutting competition I ever entered, and most of those I entered thereafter, all with knives that I had made myself. I didn't practice for the first one, I just relied on the skills I had built up in a lifetime of using a knife to it's optimum in the field.
I was not and am not denigrating the use of a commercial range. I was asking the question to learn why it seems so popular to do so when I have personally never felt the urge or need to do so.
I was, and am, perfectly happy to rely on the quality of the blade and the edge as it came from the factory. You see, I was/am that 'factory'. I won the first cutting competition I ever entered, and most of those I entered thereafter, all with knives that I had made myself. I didn't practice for the first one, I just relied on the skills I had built up in a lifetime of using a knife to it's optimum in the field.
I was not and am not denigrating the use of a commercial range. I was asking the question to learn why it seems so popular to do so when I have personally never felt the urge or need to do so.
Give it a go, you might enjoy it
I knew you are a knife maker...that was the point of my little nudge...and through practicing your craft I bet you became a better one over the years. Just like you were saying in the other thread about intensive rabbit shooting.
On the way to my 10,000 hours, I kept doing a double take with a sort of..."Wow! I have just made that in half the time it took me last year....and I thought I was faster than the year before then"...and as I became quicker and more efficient the piece became better and fresher and less overworked.
The skills that you relied on in your competition were not gained by looking at a knife on the bench, but through using one...= practice...it doesn't have to be repetitious exercises off the job, or going through the competition tasks does it? It is still practice.
We are not at odds here really though are we? Your original question has been answered by you, and most other posts on here...many of us do not have access to an informal range on our ground, mainly through noise nuisance. If we want to gain or improve our marksmanship skills or develop our own ammunition, a range for practice is required.
Alan
Orion
Well-Known Member
‘Zeroing - practice’ is now part of the standard HO advised condition for quarry shooters as at Appendix 3, and the FLDs should be using it to avoid any confusion whatever the amount of ammo you decide to go through. It applies to impromptu field ‘ranges’ as well as established ones. If any newly (re)issued FACs don’t have it included, then it might an idea to ask the FLD why not.
Similar threads
