Roe buck kid info.

[5pointer]

Hi all,

I have a bit of a query which I’m hoping to get some further understanding about.

I have always believed it to be the case that when roe does are in season, dependant young, including bucks, can be shot on the basis of preventing suffering if your intention is to orphan them by taking the mature doe.

I’ve also heard the suggestion that, in principle, a buck kid is treated as sexless while it is dependant. I don’t fully adhere to this view, as surely that opens it up to the possibility of choosing to take the dependant buck because it is ‘sexless’. In my perception of things, I thought it was only legal to shoot a dependant buck out of season if you have shot/are intending to shoot the mother?

It was suggested to me the other day that, because roe buck kids are supposedly ‘sexless’ until a year old, that it was therefore illegal to shoot a buck kid in the initial stages of buck season before it is truly a yearling. I am not aware of any legal precedent to back up that suggestion, as I believe that a buck that can easily be identified as such, regardless of age, can be taken when they are in season?

I’m not sure I’ve put this across particularly coherently, but I look forward to hearing any thoughts/views on the subject.

Thanks in advance,

5pointer.

 

[Highfield]

The 'Sexless' thing was just a smokescreen to cover for the illegal (although morally justifiable?) killing of male young in the female season before the amendments that came in in 2007. The law is clear now.

 

[5pointer]

Thanks for you reply. It sounds like it tallies with my own understanding of the situation

So, to clarify, I am correct in thinking that, if I have shot a doe that has a dependant buck, which I genuinely believe is going to suffer as a result of my shooting of the doe, I can ethically and legally shoot the dependant buck.

However, there is no law in place which states a that a dependant buck is ‘sexless’ and, as such, there is no law which would prevent you from taking a young buck at the very start of the buck season.

Does that sound about right?

(I feel ridiculous even asking this tbh, as I’d like to think I know a little bit about what I’m talking about, but when someone is adamant they are correct I feel the need to get a second opinion, and I have been wrong on occasion!)

 

[Highfield]

Correct. (you could shoot the kid first if you felt it was appropriate)

The Regulatory Reform (Deer) (England and Wales) Order 2007

This Order is made under section 1 of the Regulatory Reform Act 2001 (2001 c. 6). It amends the Deer Act 1991 (1991 c. 54) (“the 1991 Act”) by removing certain burdens on those affected by it.

www.legislation.gov.uk

 

[5pointer]

Correct. (you could shoot the kid first if you felt it was appropriate)

The Regulatory Reform (Deer) (England and Wales) Order 2007

This Order is made under section 1 of the Regulatory Reform Act 2001 (2001 c. 6). It amends the Deer Act 1991 (1991 c. 54) (“the 1991 Act”) by removing certain burdens on those affected by it.

www.legislation.gov.uk

That’s great, thanks for providing the attached legal info.

Just out of interest, do you know where exactly the ‘sexless’ terminology originated?

 

[foxdropper]

Question now also getting asked of some humans with no resolve .

 

[bryn]

Correct. (you could shoot the kid first if you felt it was appropriate)

The Regulatory Reform (Deer) (England and Wales) Order 2007

This Order is made under section 1 of the Regulatory Reform Act 2001 (2001 c. 6). It amends the Deer Act 1991 (1991 c. 54) (“the 1991 Act”) by removing certain burdens on those affected by it.

www.legislation.gov.uk

Agreed, but worth pointing out that dependancy of followers becomes less and less as the doe season progresses. The question I ask myself is ......will the follower make it through winter without the mother........ A question easily answered in mid December but much more of a dilemma in mid march.
bryn

 

[patrickt]

bryn, I think the response you have provided is a very sound well balanced view for us all to consider, in my opinion!!

Patrickt

 

[lugar]

Bryn has the correct answer to the question.

 

[Freeforester]

They don't come back from the dead, all the same. Unless it's very early in the season indeed, the buck kid has a chance of teaming up with non-territorial animals, but not if dead.

Im of the view if you're shooting bucks in the doe season, you'll not get enough does killed. Of course if your property is small, then you can probably justify it to yourself, but it's a waste, in a land where already there are so many bucks which never make maturity because of itchy trigger fingers.

I had a pal whose farm in Denmark produced no end of yearling and two year old bucks, but no older bucks. This was because culturally, they are all frightened into thinking that 'the neighbour' will take it at the first opportunity anyway; this it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy/downward spiral. I managed to persuade him to leave just one to mature.
He bagged it a year or two later, his first medal buck on the place.

Tall oaks from little acorns grow, but only when given half a chance. It's not as though it'll be worth a fortune at the dealers, eh?

 

[5pointer]

Thank you all for the feedback.

I wholeheartedly agree with showing restraint in shooting any dependant bucks out of season, unless it feels legitimately necessary and the ethical thing to do. I’ve plenty of does to take off without the need to supplement it with buck kids! (I personally like to think I’m pretty selective in the deer I take off of my ground, and I have been able to account for a few decent bucks thanks to having let them come on while they’re young.)

I was really asking just to check that my understanding of the legalities involved were correct, particularly regarding the ‘sexless’ element.

 

[arron]

I am of the opinion of if it's a follower , buck or doe , you should make the effort to shoot it/ them ,,, they dont do too well when the weather turns **** , and if it doesnt ,they can just pine away ,,there will be plenty you havent seen to come on , if you shoot the mother ,shoot the kids ! I am not saying they all will die , they just dont do well,,,, or if they are a bit thin on the ground,,, shoot a kid !

 

[foxdropper]

Are we saying it’s right to leave a doe because she has a dependant buck kid or am I reading too much into it .We are lucky here in that there is no shortage of does or bucks but I’ve never given it a second thought to leave a doe who’s got a buck kid with her but it’s definitely food for thought .

 

[arron]

That is your choice based your your cull plan , there is no right or wrong answer , just your own moral decision, it becomes more and less critical at certain times of the year ,, also look at what state the young are in ,, are they doing well or looking poor ,, it all contributes to your decision at the time