Science of Roe Deer Management

[Norfolk Deer Search]

My very limited experience is that medals chiefly come from previously unstalked ground, as some bucks have lived long enough to start producing heavy heads.

Exactly that genetics

 

[VSS]

Exactly that genetics

But the genetics won't be phenotypically expressed unless conditions such as feed availability, trace elements, population structure etc are favourable.

 

[Norfolk Deer Search]

Assuming there’s the quality of food sources and genetics to allow good heads. But as said, a good head in A can be a poor head in B, both have to be treated the same. One man’s garbage is another man’s gold

In years gone by, I didn’t tolerate poor heads, I shot them until something work keeping came along and watched it, then it either progressed into a good quality buck to which I then let it grow and then shot as a old buck going back or it got swept away for the next candidate

 

[Freeforester]

My very limited experience is that medals chiefly come from previously unstalked ground, as some bucks have lived long enough to start producing heavy heads.

Or where they are permitted to live long enough. When an old master is taken, it takes two seasons minimum for the new incumbent to maximise his potential. Some don’t want to wait that long, or haven’t the ground or patience, etc. The race to the bottom begins with the mentality of ‘If I don’t shoot it, my neighbour will’. I once persuaded a guy with this outlook to spare for one season a decent buck on his area - he said it had zero chance, citing the 42 syndicate members of the adjacent woodland property (commercial plantation); the following season it held its territory once more, and the fellow took him as his first medal buck from his area.

Exactly that genetics

Normal for Norfolk: the Norfolk roe are said to have been introduced there from Wurttemberg Germany, and seldom have produced good trophies, despite the county having some of the best red deer in the U.K, and some pretty decent other species.

 

[Norfolk Deer Search]

Normal for Norfolk: the Norfolk roe are said to have been introduced there from Wurttemberg Germany, and seldom have produced good trophies, despite the county having some of the best red deer in the U.K, and some pretty decent other species.

Exactly that, you really do have to your way through them before anything half decent come along!

I have had a few good ones 2 making bronze personally and 3/4 slightly better for clients , I do know of literally a hand full of gold but they are very vary few and far between

 

[slider]

Not an easy subject to master!

If you haven’t got the genetics or the minerals in the ground you may as well shoot on site.

With out those 2 things you don’t have a hope in hell of decent Bucks and That’s fact

Not an easy subject to master!

If you haven’t got the genetics or the minerals in the ground you may as well shoot on site.

With out those 2 things you don’t have a hope in hell of decent Bucks and That’s fact

However we don't all define a decent buck the same. Trophy heads are of no interest to some, who may only be interested in the yield of meat, or indeed the protection of crops...

 

[Heym SR20]

I am not sure its a reduction in numbers of deer, or numbers of stalkers thats needed. It is a basic understanding pf good herd management, and basics of ethics all round that is needed.

Go back a few years this was well understood by all. Now there are far too many whose attitude is its brown its down, and **** what any body else things, I can do what I bloody well want.

As for the money to fund research. Well Scottish Government is spending tens of millions on contract culling. Then the likes of the Dallas Safari Club are also spending millions of dollars on conservation, research etc. Pretty soon deer will be extinct as a harvestable or hunting species in many parts of the UK and everybody will clamouring for reintroductions.

Owners of particularly forestry will quickly find that forestry abd rewilding has a pretty appalling cashflow and is pretty much a money pit until eventually you get a harvest of timber. Sport hunting is one of the very few means of exploiting wild lands and giving an income. Alternatives are extractive mining and wind farms.

 

[Norfolk Deer Search]

However we don't all define a decent buck the same. Trophy heads are of no interest to some, who may only be interested in the yield of meat, or indeed the protection of crops...

I would normally agree, but when it comes to roe bucks I have a major soft spot

 

[Sol]

An excellent watch. Wouldn’t it be wonderful if the likes of SNH and our Universities actually did some proper science to learn how our deer work, rather than the view that all deer should just be eliminated down to a very low density?

The ability too tag fawns would be fantastic I'm not sure if Its legally allowed though, same time I'm surprised no one does it since a basic colour tag that only you know the information off (e.g colour coded to year) would be near untraceable back too yourself.

But regardless haven't we got paperwork in place that allows us to capture wild deer? It would be nice too have another bit of paperwork for the remote tagging of fawns.

 

[JeffreyL]

Old agricultural saying ‘ half the pedigree goes in through the mouth’.

 

[Tim.243]

Old agricultural saying ‘ half the pedigree goes in through the mouth’.

And the other half on the roses...

 

[Freeforester]

Wouldn’t want the weight of those 20/60 image stabilising Zeiss glasses round my neck all morning or evening, lovely as they are.

 

[wildfowler.250]

Far from an expert but aside from genetics and food availability, how harsh a winter we have will likely be a big factor for the following year as well

 

[Keith Edmunds]

My very limited experience is that medals chiefly come from previously unstalked ground, as some bucks have lived long enough to start producing heavy heads.

That makes sense in theory but is not necessarily what I have seen in practice. In roe deer, antler size - especially length - doesn't increase with every year a buck lives. The oldest buck ( based on molar wear) that I have shot was a very low bronze. The second oldest that I have shot (again based on teeth) wouldn't make a medal. The two best heads that I have shot, measured by Dominic Griffith and Chris Rogers - were a fraction under Silver (which is good for Suffolk) and were middle-aged, around 4 years old.