scopeing a double rifle

[Southern]

I certainly don't want to shoot anything heavier than .375 H&H from the bench.
The heaviest I have shot is a .470 NE, in a 12 pound double rifle. You need to be able to roll with the recoil.

And in a hunting situation, you would be shooting offhand, so that is how you want to regulate the sights and barrels, and practice.

 

[2130martin]

The only double barreled rifle I have handled had a screw type system at the end of the barrel to adjust POI between the two barrels,dont they all have that system???

 

[Southern]

No, the better ones regulated at the factory for a particular weight of bullet at particular MV, by brazing the barrels at the action, then soldering them at the end, so the solder can be loosened and the barrel moved with a jig.

When they get one barrel shooting to the sights (or to one side, parallel ), they go to work on the other barrel. In the old days, before torches, they loosened the solder spot joints by running a hot copper rod into the barrel to that spot.

 

[8x57]

The only double barreled rifle I have handled had a screw type system at the end of the barrel to adjust POI between the two barrels,dont they all have that system???

No the various sliding wedges and screw adjustment systems are a relatively modern method of adjustment having only really been around for the last 40 years or so. Traditionally built rifles still require gunsmithing to regulate the barrels to a particular load.

I don't know who first produced a double rifle that could be adjusted by simply turning a screw or sliding a wedge but the earliest one that I can think of was Tikka that has since evolved via various other makers into the Finn Classic now made by Marocchi in Italy. Perhaps someone else can remind us of a previous maker who used such a system as I'm sure that there must have been someone before Tikka. Now a days most express rifle makers seem to use one system or another that allows the shooter to alter the divergence themselves, that is on all but the very best guns. Even Browning went over to a sliding ring system on their cheaper O/U doubles some years back though I still think that they use traditional methods on their hand made line of rifles.

 

[reiver]

Just to update every one I still haven't fitted a scope to my rifle as yet but it is now grouping 4 shots (2 from each barrel) in and around 2" @70 meters with factory 285gr. It turns out that my rifle likes to be shot dirty as the groups have closed up since I stopped cleaning it.
My rifle has the soldered wedge in the front of the muzzle to regulate the 2 barrels poa as well.

Bob

 

[8x57]

Leave it alone Bob and keep that load, you won't get any better than that.

 

[IanF]

Leave it alone Bob and keep that load, you won't get any better than that.

Says you!

What does occur (personal, bitter experience) is that your eyes start losing it around the age of 50. Getting a decent sight picture is more and more difficult, unless you shoot with glasses.

It is at this point that a red-dot style sight will let you continue to wring the best accuracy from your double - when compared to your express sights.

Have recently seen a 'micro dot' sold by Shield in Dorset. Bit expensive compared to the chinese end of the market, however, comes with a range of bases - one of which will clamp onto the rib of an O/U with no gun-smithing.

This will work fine on any O/U double & is a damn sight cheaper than scoping, which will require extensive smithing & then re-blacking. It is also very instinctive and avoids the tendency to 'hang' on a shot - sometimes a problem when shooting scoped rifles.

Shortly off down to Shield to see whether this is an option for my lovely Sauer Drilling. Being SxS configuration, space either side of the rib could be an issue. Will report back.

Now - off to chase Roe, here in Devon the rut is running hot!

Rgds

Ian

 

[Southern]

Burris Fast Fire red dot is in a small package, which fits onto a base for particular guns - pistol, rifle, shotgun, double rifle. Recknagel and others are now coming out with bases for these sorts of sights which snap into a single front claw base. You can drill and tap the rib of a SxS or O/U and mount a single slot base like a Warne style onto that. These little sights weigh almost nothing, made for pistols like the FNH .45 ACP.

Burris FastFire Picatinny-Style Base Adapter Protective Wings Matte

 

[Orion]

The only double barreled rifle I have handled had a screw type system at the end of the barrel to adjust POI between the two barrels,dont they all have that system???

Haenel use a sliding system under the forend on their Jaeger 8.11 O/U double rifle. Illustrated here: http://www.cg-haenel.de/en/haenel-jaeger/products/over-under-rifle-jaeger-811/

 

[Mr. Gain]

Have recently seen a 'micro dot' sold by Shield in Dorset. [...] Shortly off down to Shield to see whether this is an option for my lovely Sauer Drilling. Being SxS configuration, space either side of the rib could be an issue. Will report back.

Hi Ian,

I was chatting to Jeremy at the CLA and wondering the same thing, so when you see him, please pass on my regards; and let me know what the verdict is re your drilling (what's good for a Sauer is presumably good for a Kreighoff too!)

Oh, and good luck with the rut!

8x57,

The latest user-regulatable double is a side-by-side called the X4 from Chapuis. I had a good look at it at Blenheim and found it a handy little gun, and a stimulating blend of classic and modern features. Their S12 O/U is probably more my thing, though.

 

[8x57]

I too looked at the X4 and couldn't help comparing it to me own Chapuis. Unfortunately Mr Chapuis had gone to lunch when I was there and the guy and girl though both charming who were minding the shop weren't that familiar with the new gun. Pity as I would have liked to speak to Mr Chapuis as I am a big fan of his guns. They make some beautiful guns don't they.

 

[Mr. Gain]

I was luckier, and had quite a good chat with him. It really did seem a shame though that there was so little apparent interest in his stand, after all, he's the President of a firm that does proper gunmaking, classic and modern, and hadn't exactly "popped down the road" to be there either. Maybe people (wrongly) assume there'll be communication difficulties. I wanted to try out what's left of my French on him... but in the end decided that it would be best for both of us if I didn't!

 

[8x57]

Like you say a proper gunmaker. I really can't understand why their guns are not more popular in this country. Now if the Chapuis were looking for an ambassador for their products in this country I would willingly offer my services free of charge just as long as I got to play with the goods now and again.

I can't recall seeing any of their bolt action rifles on display, now that's one rifle that I would like to try especially if its any where as good as their other guns.

 

[Pine Marten]

I really can't understand why their guns are not more popular in this country.

I think for the same reason as iced tea never takes off in the UK: the space is already occupied by a home-grown product and the customers can't be moved. This is despite the fact that hardly anyone can afford English guns here, however the likes of William Powell and I believe William Evans now have guns made to their specifications overseas to which they add their name, and although still very expensive, people can still claim to have an "English" gun. Or indeed "English tea" despite the fact that there is obviously no such thing. Also we don't practice driven hunting of big game so there isn't the demand for the double rifles. Finally though, if you were choosing countries on which to focus your export business in sporting firearms, you wouldn't prioritise the UK, it's too small and restrictive a market.

Chapuis rifles aren't very popular in Germany either for similar reasons: they have their own domestic makers that they prefer.

 

[Mr. Gain]

All very much true and to the point.

If you were choosing countries on which to focus your export business in sporting firearms, you wouldn't prioritise the UK, it's too small and restrictive a market.

And all the more surprising therefore that Vincent should have taken the trouble to set up his stall at the CLA. I just hope he doesn't start to see things from the PM point of view!

 

[8x57]

I wasn't just thinking only of their (Chapuis) rifles, they make some very fine shotguns also PM.

I will have to disagree slightly with regard to the William Powell shotguns being expensive because they have put their name to a few models that are quite reasonable in price and quite good looking too. Admittedly these guns are made in Italy but by B. Rizzini who is quite well respected maker.


This is the bolt action rifle that I was thinking of http://www.chapuis-armes.com/challenger-range/26-carabine-a-verrou-modele-luxus.html Have they stopped making them I wonder?

 

[Brithunter]

Of course we have English tea ............................ it's properly known as Breakfast Tea. It was the English who smuggled tea plants out of China and planted then in India. Our tea is very different to that in China I believe.

F.A Anderson of East Grinstead used to stock Chapuis rifles but that was when Jack Woods still ran the shop. Not sure if they still carry any now as have not been down there for over a decade now.

 

[Pine Marten]

I wasn't just thinking only of their (Chapuis) rifles, they make some very fine shotguns also PM.

Oh I know! In fact, they've been awarded the status of "Entreprise du patrimoine vivant" recently, they're a bit of a flagship company in that sector on France. Here, I found a press release. I daresay the chap you saw at the Game Fair is one of the three pictures: http://www.chapuis-armes.com/img/chapuis/CP_Chapuis Armes _EPV__Avril 2012.pdf

 

[Southern]

When Butch Searcy started making double rifles, he built the early ones on Browning BSS frames.
Dietrich Apel used to build O/U double rifles on the Ruger Red label shotgun frame, up to 9.3x74R, I think.

The British planted tea on the sea islands of South Carolina. One of the tea plantations is still thriving today. A mechanical engineer bought it in half-ruin back in the 1980s and invented a mechanical tea leaf picking machine to get past the labor intensity. The tea is noticeable different, perfect for iced tea, which is consumed in supertanker quantities in Charleston and Savannah. It is on Wadmalaw Island, now owned by Bigelow. https://www.charlestonteaplantation.com/

 

[Mr. Gain]

I daresay the chap you saw at the Game Fair is one of the three pictures: http://www.chapuis-armes.com/img/chapuis/CP_Chapuis Armes _EPV__Avril 2012.pdf

Thanks for that. Vincent is the chap on the right, seen here at Blenheim with the X4.