Shared Ammunition

[Obi Wan Reloadi]

Good evening, all.

I have a tricky question regarding shared rifles and reloaded ammunition.

Let's say two people share the same rifle, such as a father and son, or husband and wife. There would be no need for them to each have their own .308 rifle, as they don't shoot separately. So, they both have the same .308 listed on their individual Firearms Certificates . They share access to the same gun safe and ammunition store, meaning each can use the rifle and ammunition as needed.

I have a couple of questions:

1. Do they each need to buy their own ammunition, even though it's stored together?
2. If one person reloads or purchases ammunition and wants to give some to the other, do they need to enter it on the other person’s FAC? - even though both have access to the same ammunition, and may store it in the same case, does it need to be formally transferred between their certificates?

My understanding is that the law doesn't allow for ‘shared’ ammunition, and that any transfer of ammunition should be recorded on the FAC. But what if both people are using the same reloading kit to make their own ammunition? Since reloaded ammunition doesn't always need to appear on the reloader's ticket (at least in my area), how would an Firearms Licensing Officer know if one person made a batch of 50 rounds and then just gave 25 of them to the other person who could then just claim they had made them?

Or, if both individuals shared in the reloading process, could it be considered "shared" ammunition? Or who owns it?

This seems like an odd situation, especially since they are allowed to share a rifle. What are people's thoughts on the legal implications of this (not the technicalities, such as using other people's reloads)?

The authorities don't mess about with these matters, so I want to make sure I fully understand the rules.
! Firearms – Transfer and manufacture – Sentencing

 

[25 Sharps]

Honest answer, you’re overthinking it…..

 

[Obi Wan Reloadi]

Honest answer, you’re overthinking it…..

Glad to hear it - where is your source on that?

 

[Essexsussex]

Honest answer, you’re overthinking it…..

Agreed

As long as the aggregate stored in one place is less than the aggregate on certificates, or each individual has their own stash of equal to or less than their allowance then I can’t see any issues.

 

[25 Sharps]

Glad to hear it - where is your source on that?

Your post.

“how would an Firearms Licensing Officer know if one person made a batch of 50 rounds and then just gave 25 of them to the other person who could then just claim they had made them”

Technically if one person loads and gives them to the other person there is a transfer and it should be recorded on the recipient’s certificate. But if the storage is shared, the loading facilities and consumables are shared and the firearm is shared hows anything ever going to be proven?

So the FLD are never going to query it as it would be a waste of everyone’s time.

 

[Essexsussex]

Also it isn’t prohibited if you have an allowance for it so the sentencing for prohibited ammunition must be a red herring surely

 

[Obi Wan Reloadi]

Agreed

As long as the aggregate stored in one place is less than the aggregate on certificates, or each individual has their own stash of equal to or less than their allowance then I can’t see any issues.

But if one person doesn't reload - how do they account for their share of the aggregate? and their ticket not having any record of ammunition acquisition? it looks like either they acquired the ammunition illegally or have never acquired any at all - so it is not used and they may lose that right to use that rifle?

 

[palmer_mike]

But if one person doesn't reload - how do they account for their share of the aggregate? and their ticket not having any record of ammunition acquisition? it looks like either they acquired the ammunition illegally or have never acquired any at all - so it is not used and they may lose that right to use that rifle?

Post #2

 

[Obi Wan Reloadi]

Your post.

“how would an Firearms Licensing Officer know if one person made a batch of 50 rounds and then just gave 25 of them to the other person who could then just claim they had made them”

Yes - but that is definitely illegal - being given ammunition and not recording it, and illustrates the contradiction in the system. I want to know if you can legally share the same ammunition.

 

[25 Sharps]

But if one person doesn't reload - how do they account for their share of the aggregate? and their ticket not having any record of ammunition acquisition? it looks like either they acquired the ammunition illegally or have never acquired any at all - so it is not used and they may lose that right to use that rifle?

You’re changing the question.

If only one reloads then they record the gifted reloads on the others’ certificate.

I reload for the vast majority of my rifles, proving use has never been an issue.

 

[Essexsussex]

Yes - but that is definitely illegal - being given ammunition and not recording it, and illustrates the contradiction in the system. I want to know if you can legally share the same ammunition.

Ask your flo if you are concerned

 

[Obi Wan Reloadi]

Also it isn’t prohibited if you have an allowance for it so the sentencing for prohibited ammunition must be a red herring surely

It's the transfer of ownership which is the issue vs both legally owning/sharing.

 

[Liveonce]

Your post.

“how would an Firearms Licensing Officer know if one person made a batch of 50 rounds and then just gave 25 of them to the other person who could then just claim they had made them”

Technically if one person loads and gives them to the other person there is a transfer and it should be recorded on the recipient’s certificate. But if the storage is shared, the loading facilities and consumables are shared and the firearm is shared hows anything ever going to be proven?

So the FLD are never going to query it as it would be a waste of everyone’s time.

do you not write your name on each round

 

[castbullets.co.uk]

But if one person doesn't reload - how do they account for their share of the aggregate? and their ticket not having any record of ammunition acquisition? it looks like either they acquired the ammunition illegally or have never acquired any at all - so it is not used and they may lose that right to use that rifle?

How would any reasonably likely circumstance lead to a situation whereby the parties involved are having to prove, beyond a reasonable doubt, that they reload?

In the absolute strictest sense, if one person is doing 100% of the reloading and the other is absolutely incapable of reloading then sure, the reloader who is giving the ammo just writes it onto the receiver's cert - hardly a big deal?

 

[Essexsussex]

Yes - but that is definitely illegal - being given ammunition and not recording it, and illustrates the contradiction in the system. I want to know if you can legally share the same ammunition.

It's the transfer of ownership which is the issue vs both legally owning/sharing.

Ask you FLO no one on here is going to give you a response you are satisfied with

 

[Obi Wan Reloadi]

You’re changing the question.

If only one reloads then they record the gifted reloads on the others’ certificate.

I reload for the vast majority of my rifles, proving use has never been an issue.

No - it's the same question, really. If you think it is a different one the please do answer it too.

 

[Essexsussex]

No - it's the same question, really. If you think it is a different one the please do answer it too.

You’ve asked some “blokes down the pub” their opinion. We aren’t your legal counsel!

 

[castbullets.co.uk]

No - it's the same question, really. If you think it is a different one the please do answer it too.

I've never once bought ammo for at least two of mine. I use them week in, week out. Hundreds of rounds a month. Proving use is never, ever going to be an issue for me.

You don't even have to pull the trigger to 'use' a rifle either - go on a stalk or something where you don't encounter any quarry and you've still used the rifle (as far as 'good reason' is concerned) despite not a single shot being fired.

 

[Liveonce]

Seriously provided the total you have in joint possession is not greater than the combined amount allowed to be possessed, what’s the problem.

 

[Obi Wan Reloadi]

Your post.

“how would an Firearms Licensing Officer know if one person made a batch of 50 rounds and then just gave 25 of them to the other person who could then just claim they had made them”

Technically if one person loads and gives them to the other person there is a transfer and it should be recorded on the recipient’s certificate. But if the storage is shared, the loading facilities and consumables are shared and the firearm is shared hows anything ever going to be proven?

So the FLD are never going to query it as it would be a waste of everyone’s time.

I can't find your post where you originally said "If only one reloads then they record the gifted reloads on the others’ certificate." I'm not sure if you edited after I replied, but that is correct - but can two people both share the same ammunition?