Shooting in natural decline?

[countrryboy]

Was an article in this weeks ST's about a shoot in Suffolk thats 2'500 acres and releasing 8K pheas and 28K red legs and reckon it is amazing the wildlife it holds due to all the conservation measures that they use for the shooting.

Big bushy hedges only cut 1 side at a time on 5 yr rotations, big feild marigns bettle banks etc, wild flower/pollen/nectar etc rich game covers. The atricle made a point of how scruffy all the fields/farm looked because it had so many 'wild' places, but thats wot nature needs. Alsomade a big point in the ammount of BoP resident on the shoot

I'm on the commitee for local wildlife trust and despite all the hard work they do they have not got a bloody clue, most of the work they do is counter productive and actually happers nature, does my head in refuse to kill any predators think its great they get some brilliant photos of stoats regularly, yet we have not fledged a ground nesting bird for 4 or 5 years, not 1 bloody chick.
50 odd resident mallards plus coots moorhens dab chicks, i was doing some chainsaw work for them 1 day came out to find they had strimmed every island to look like a bowling green in Oct, so birds have absolutely no cover or shelter from predation or weather all winter/spring, i could understand if he rotated it but not all at once. Makes it easier to take good photos thou
Nature comes to the reserve to die, doing far more harm than good by feeding and attracting more birds in only to be ate by something else. If it wasnae for surrounding sporting estates there would be very little wildlife at the reserve as it is not sustainable


I'd say shooting is more popular than ever and more accessable than ever (possibly debateble as demand is so high and no longer as much free shooting, but if ur willing to pay) but with sites like this who offer a lot to newbies, guns on pegs as well for bought days. U also have various bSC,nobs NGO schemes, althou basc had to cancel a young shots day locally last year as absolutely no interest in it

I'm sure its not easy for kids not in the know but if they really wanted it bad enough i'm sure they could get involved, esp with modern bus services u could get out of most cities and into the country in no time.
Some of the bigger moors actually run buses into cities to pick up beaters, think some run into dundee, and some of the big towns/cities along the nort east eng, even head up north to be a bothy beater on the grouse (was mentioned in shooting thread already adertised for this aug), they will put u up and feed u for 6 weeks and usually pay u most days, if not out on grouse ur painting steadens, cresoting butts etc, 1 moor i was on had some public school boys picking ragwort for bloody weeks. Another moor had a stalker from hungray came over to se the grouse showed me some photos of the biggest red stag heads i've ever seen

I think the general public is seeing throu the lies spun by the rspb and the likes, the older generation can still mind when it was rae to see BoP's and every other bird was common now the other way around, we just need to educate them some more and fight our corner a bt more

 

[User00047]

Right, as I promised, here's an insight into the difficulty of recruiting young shooters/hunters/stalkers. Consider if you will the case of a 14 year old who for one reason or another would like to start shooting. He or she is not from an environment where anyone shoots, and probably lives in a town or city. Admittedly this is a difficult starting point, but we're trying to recruit new people. For people from a shooting background or who live in the countryside, you can start removing some the barriers.

1. Agency
This is arguably the biggest hurdle for a youngster who wants to start shooting. They're not really masters of their own lives. They have no income, are mostly dependent on parents or guardians for transport beyond the immediate vicinity of their home, aren't allowed to buy a gun even if they have money and have obtained an SGC. They cannot apply for an SGC or FAC without parental support. They need permission to install a cabinet. Essentially if they can't bring their parents or guardians onside, it's a non-starter. How are their parents to know that this isn't just another expensive whim like the XBox or the mountain bike? From the non-shooting parent's perspective, it means letting their child go off with strangers, probably quite some distance away, to do something potentially hazardous (there are guns, it's dangerous, that's what people think instinctively). Finally, don't underestimate the difficulty for this kid of even mentioning that this is what they want to do in a peer group to whom it is completely alien, and that's most peer groups.

2. Initial outlay
Suppose the above problems are solvable, this kid will need a gun. Realistically, they don't know much about it, choosing a second hand one is a minefield if you have no-one knowledgeable to help you. You have very little money anyway. A second hand gun is going to be a risky purchase, it's a big ticket item and you don't know if it's going to be worth the outlay. Neither do your parents. On the plus side, you have years and years to do your research while you save up. Actually handling and trying out guns before you buy them is very difficult to organise.

3. Transport.
Shooting and stalking tend to happen in out of the way places. You don't have a car, there may not be a handy train station within cycling distance of your destination, or the train times don't match the sometimes unsociable hours of shooting. You certainly don't have any money for B&Bs to overcome this barrier. So realistically, you're going to need an adult to drive you there at possibly inconvenient times, and pick you up. This could be considerably more demanding than dropping you off at the football up the road for instance.

4. Timings.
This kid who wants to get into shooting realistically only has weekends and holidays in which to do it. A lot of shoots operate midweek. Only the Christmas holidays take place during the game shooting season. Admittedly there are pigeons in the summer. But it does limit available time. It's not a thing you can do after school.

5. Access to somewhere to shoot!
This is the probably where our notional aspirant shooter is most likely to give up. There is no way he can afford driven shooting. He or she doesn't know any friendly local farmers or landowners and meeting them is hard, although forums like this are by a long way the best way of overcoming that. This is the bit where those who can need to really help out, because this is otherwise insurmountable. I'd mention at this stage wildfowling clubs which can offer fantastic shooting at rock-bottom prices for people who can make the best of them, but I refer you back to the timings and transport sections.

All of the above assume the the person really wants to do this in the first place too, that there is a demand. That's not actually a given. But the barriers to entry or really quite formidable when you think about it and take a step back outside our world.

Pine Marten, all these problems that you have mentioned are only really problems for children in cities. Any young person in a rural area would have ample chance to get involved with almost any fieldsports, especially if he is willing to listen and learn. The old boys enjoy passing on their knowledge of the countryside to the next generation. Once people see that a kid is serious and is genuinely interested (and not just an idiot that wants to shoot some stuff because he has played too many "call of duty" type games) adults will help out and make sure the kid is looked after.

 

[woodmaster]

As you all know this is a very complex subject, with many variables and pressures from all angles. But here's my take. Now when I was a boy of 5 or 6 I wasn't allowed to go shooting with my Uncle (whom bought me up) when he donned his old jacket, threw a dozen cartridges in the pocket and set off to some local ground to a few roosting pigeon. I heard all the stories, and got to listen to him and a shooting buddy talk about what a good time they'd had, and I wished I could go. I kept asking and heard the inevitable "you're to young and you'll get cold and bored".

With great skill my uncle kept this going for as long as possible till he knew any longer and he risked me loosing interest. So I got to go one Saturday. Stand in a freezing cold ditch in my little wellies and a duffle coat with 3 buttons to do it up, and 10 holes to let the wind in.
I was freezing and at times bored, but the excitement was there and I loved being out with the men and the guns.

The next wait to actually use a gun was much the same as the earlier described wait, but eventually after the customary display of how a shot gun blows the sh** out of a tin drum, and all the other muzzle awareness rules. I got to shoot a rabbit.
From that day I have loved shooting, albeit rough shooting with very little actually killed. We couldn't afford decoys and lofting poles. We had to build a hide from stuff in the hedge (no camo nets) and didn't always have enough cartridges to bother with. But what an education.

I was then able to buy my first air rifle with pocket money saved and birthday/christmas money included. A Webley Vulcan and 3-9x40 Scope. (this was significant as a scope was a new thing to my uncle). Some of my mates at school were the sons of farmers so I was very fortunate to be able to take my rifle up the lane, across a couple of fields and stalk in on some great rabbit warrens. Still got the rifle and scope as it was then.

At 14 my mate and I applied for our SGC. The local copper came round the house and said he wasn't going to let me have one,as he didn't like the idea of a young lad having a SG on his patch. Well that was like saying I could't breath and I set about changing his plan. Some letters were written to BASC and replies eagerly awaited in the old fashioned post. Till eventually I wrote to the chief officer and put my case forward.
Said bobby came back to visit with SGC in hand. His words were "You have done very well to get this, it is a great responsibility that lies with you now. If you make one mistake or give me the slightest chance I'll have it back off you, so be good."

I knew I was lucky and never did give him the chance to get it back. But if I were to see him today I'd thank him for those words as I could have been a scally wag and shot something on the wrong side of the fence, but his words rang in my ears.

The excitement of going to a farm and buying my first shot gun is still tangible and I couldn't wait to get out with it. I was fortunate to be given great freedom as a child and alot of respect that I would behave. I had some fantastic days using my ammo wisely and only taking shots that would result in likely kills.

This inherent compulsion to be out in the woods and fields, trying to find a quarry and beat it in it's own environment is a huge part of who I am. I like many lost sight of it for a while while I chased the £'s and the possessions that we are led by society to believe will make us good people with all we want in life and we will be looked at as successful by our peers.
Looking back I missed a great time when I could have had as much shooting as I wanted for free. Instead I thought a nice car or a foreign holiday would be a better way to spend time and money.

Today that land that I shot on as a boy is change somewhat, there's barely a hedge left on it. The crop comes to within an inch of the edge. The ponds have been filled and the fields drained. I barely see a bird of any description and I can't remember the last time I shot a rabbit on there.
If the pigeons do come they're at the other end of the field. Which is so barren they'd see you before you knew you were there yourself. If you're lucky enough to get a shot off they all fly off to the next sea of rape on the neighbours farm and you're f***ed.

So I'd lost faith in the enjoyment of shooting and had all but give up, as game shooting had always been portrayed as the preserve of the lords and gentry, and the likes of I even being able to afford the cartridges was laughable. Deer stalking to was for HRH and the wealthy industrialists to have their servants carry lunch up the hill and hold the rifle till the shot was to be taken.

So in recent years I have been fortunate enough to have a few quid and thought I might see if I could have a go at stalking. You know for a special treat. So I found a guy on here and went and shot me a Fallow pricket down in Herefordshire. I was hooked even before I shot it. I spent a few £1000 that year and went as often as I had time. I couldn't really afford it but I live a simple life and so can save if I need to. I did feel guilty spending money on shooting instead of making my house better, or buying a better car for my wife. But it was unavoidable, I had returned to those glorious days of excitement and anticipation I had when a young boy.

Now I still spend more than I should on shooting as I go more and more. It's not a treat but what makes life worth all the hassle that comes with modern day pressure. Really it's escapism back to my simple roots and small pleasures, in a habitat I am perfectly comfortable in.

And here lies the problem with shooting. There isn't enough land "freely" available for those young kids to get out on with their air rifle or 410. There are many people who want to get out into the countryside and go shooting. What the drive is for doing so may be different to me or you and in an arrogant sort of way I do wonder if it's just too many townies fancy having a go with a gun or pretending to be something of a lord. Whatever we shouldn't scoff as some of these people are great and become life long hunters and good ambassadors for what I consider a way of life. However as some lead this duel lifestyle it is difficult to have the high power job and "successful career" and have time to shoot the pesky things farmers need dealt with. So one has to forego that shooting while earning the £millions. Instead it's preferable to spend some of that money on shooting when it fits in with the wife going hand bag shopping, taking the kids to yoga classes and that round of golf (stupid game!) with the boss and his mates.

This leads to demand, which lends itself to growth and the whole circus comes to town to cash in on the act. We do less shooting as it's got expensive, and have to do more work so have less time. Less people shooting means cost goes up la la la. Now there are ALOT of people who earn enough to keep this merry go round spinning but they are mainly the 45+ group. Older guys on fixed pensions have to cound the £ as do younger ones. So it's not till they reach a point (as I did) where money is a bit easier to come by can they justify speding £200+ on a days shooting (game).

So we have this big age gap. Which looks like there's no young blood coming up, and could well be the case if we don't get them out as young adults for their first taste. I f we do they will almost certainly come back once time and money allows. What would be better though is to find away to have a better range of ages at a shoot as the norm. Would it be so bad for them who have now got the money to put a £10 in the pot and allow a young gun the chance to shoot a season? Or give up the odd drive to one of the beaters. There's great pleasure to be gained from seeing someone glow in the excitement of having a go. Probably more than shooting yourself. But it's hard to do as getting some ground where you can do this is almost impossible. Some on here do it often and I have been privileged to have benefited from their generosity. But there's 1000's of members on this site alone and only a few dozen who publicly open their arm to new blood. (I'm sure there's plenty who do great things and prefer to be unknown).

There is no answer to all this but perhaps we should consider that shooting has changed as the likes of I (a common worker) has through the economical growth of our nation found it possible to try things that was once the preserve of the wealthy. There must be many thousands of guys like me which has led to demand of a finite resource, and therefore greater cost. However if you are passionate about hunting/shooting as I am you will forego that rolex watch ,or new fancy phone or going out to a bloody wine bar in ya £200 trainers, and go hunting. In fact the aforementioned things won't even be in the picture as hunting will always take precedence over those throw away items.

I enjoyed looking back at my life and hope it struck a chord with some of you? Sorry it took so long to get to the end!

 

[BunnyDoom]

We seem constantly bombarded by the shooting press and organisations that the biggest threats to shooting are a lead ban, firearms legislation, animal welfare/rights, antis etc. We have just given up a game shoot, and it is more apparent that the biggest threat is that there are virtually no young people coming into shooting, mainly due to cost, that it is actualy in terminal decline anyway. In game shooting, shoots are closing or scaling back everywhere and a 200-bird day now costs around £750 is that really value for money? That seems to be a much bigger threat than what we are being told.

Sadly it's become very commercial and dominated by knobs. I was lucky enough to have some decent blokes take me out stalking, teach me how to reload, and pss on valuable experience - all for no other reason than propagation of the sport and general human decency.

We should all be offering to take out youngsters (18+) and teaching them what we can about deer stalking - otherwise they might actually end up believing some of the piffle written on SD

 

[Spix]

Releasing game birds to then blast them out of the sky is actually quite hard to justify as a humane sport. Deer need to be culled as they are a prey species with no viable predators and they breed accordingly. Pigeon numbers are increasing at an alarming rate as game shoots won't allow people to shoot them for fear of disturbing the game birds. The gas guns and bangers merely move the problem elsewhere without addressing it. Pigeons (and rabbits) can drastically affect human food production. I believe that deer and vermin shooters have a future but game shooters days are numbered. Pheasants and partridge don't really need to be shot. I do shoot them for sport, but I also have to accept the reality of the situation..
MS

This is the future, and no crystal ball needed

 

[Crosshair243]

This is the future, and no crystal ball needed

When I was 12, the gamekeeper I used to help said the same thing. But then he laughed and said "but then they said that to me when I was 12!"

The trouble is, if it's morally right to shoot one bird for sport then you can't draw a line.

With regards to deer stalking, I would say the rise in commercial stalking is little different. People are paying vast rents- so maintain artificially high populations to ensure they can meet their clients requirements.
High localised deer populations destroy woodland ecology far more than a few thousand pheasants.

 

[Spix]

you can't draw a line

Yes can you, just vote with your feet.

I guess I’m not the only person who is sick and tired of the utter pretension, bs and rip offs in commercial game shooting ; the short legged t\osser who would rather look at the branding on your clothing than look you in the eye, the vanity of the triple ring Arab handshake crowd, the ludicrous self aggrandizement of the Saturday scrap metal dealers found only on game shoots, the agent who says ‘if you don’t shoot much, we’ll knock a bit off’ and expect you to swallow it (if anyone, anywhere ever says that to you then you know for sure that the land is overshot), the poor sod who is the living walking anagram of “Norfolk gamekeeper” = SACKED AGAIN.

I used to laugh at it, these days it’s well below my level of interest.

 

[Crosshair243]

Yes can you, just vote with your feet.

I guess I’m not the only person who is sick and tired of the utter pretension, bs and rip offs in commercial game shooting ; the short legged t\osser who would rather look at the branding on your clothing than look you in the eye, the vanity of the triple ring Arab handshake crowd, the ludicrous self aggrandizement of the Saturday scrap metal dealers found only on game shoots, the agent who says ‘if you don’t shoot much, we’ll knock a bit off’ and expect you to swallow it (if anyone, anywhere ever says that to you then you know for sure that the land is overshot), the poor sod who is the living walking anagram of “Norfolk gamekeeper” = SACKED AGAIN.

I used to laugh at it, these days it’s well below my level of interest.

Just because you're jaded with something, doesn't mean others can't enjoy it.

Every shoot has its own atmosphere- usually filtered down from the owner/manager or headkeeper so they're all special and unique.
None of those stereotypes ring any bells with me and I visit around 20 different shoots a season.