Snipe - I didn’t know that..

[Dunwaters]

Only ever shoot at them if out with a muzzleloader.
View attachment 450426
Rarely pursue them though now these days.

On a tangent, I don't buy the " they are suffering" thing.
They wouldn't fly all this way to suffer!
Every one I have had and woodcock has been fat. No suffering at all.
I've watched woodcock in frozen conditions, they know where to go. They know where the warm springs are, the warm marshes.
We humanize stuff to much!

They suffer when theres a widespread freeze for more than a few days because they can’t feed and there’s nowhere to migrate to. After a week of widespread frost you can almost pick them up by hand.
They will migrate from frozen ground if they can, theres a salt marsh near me that holds hundreds of snipe after 2 or 3 days of frost.
The only proper way to shoot them is over pointing dogs, thats my firm opinion, and I’m not changing it. Interesting little beggars to hunt, some dogs won’t hunt or point them, some won’t pick them up and some dogs will hunt them in preference to anything else.


Woodcock…

 

[Nickb]

Brilliant sporting birds , haven't shot one for years now though..

 

[scoby3030]

Shot them in the past, don't anymore, same with Woodcock and Hares.
Much prefer to see them around now, might be an age thing possibly.

S

 

[John Gryphon]

Utterly amazed by this.

They certainly put in the hard travel.

Latham's snipe migrate from their breeding grounds in Japan and eastern Russia to spend the non-breeding season in Australia, arriving between August and March and departing between May and October.

 

[Smellydog]

almost

But not actually caught one?

theres a salt marsh near me that holds hundreds of snipe after 2 or 3 days of frost.

Exactly my point

 

[John Gryphon]

some dogs won’t hunt or point them,

Some dogs will do what their master wants them to do.

 

[Plummer]

I watch most nights, more coming in every night..

 

[Hambone]

Some dogs will do what their master wants them to do.

And some will **** at the most importune moment at the worst location. You cant do fk all about that either.

 

[John Gryphon]

And some will **** at the most importune moment at the worst location. You cant do fk all about that either.

The some dogs are the ones alive unlike the others that reside in a hole in the bush.

 

[GlennUK]

Shot them in the past, don't anymore, same with Woodcock and Hares.
Much prefer to see them around now, might be an age thing possibly.

S

Interesting point re not shooting hares, is that because you dont like to eat them, numbers?

FWIW i dont shoot hares or rabbits, where i shoot there are insufficient numbers to cause a problem AFAIK.

In my part of Essex i would say hares are relatively scarce too, but i have seen videos on youtrube where there areliterarlly hundreds in fields cant recall where but pretty sure it was a uk video.

 

[Dunwaters]

But not actually caught one?

Not personally by hand,I don’t try, the dogs have picked up a fair few over the years. Anything over 3 days hard frost now and I leave them alone.
Jack snipe hold really tight, it wouldn’t be difficult to pop a net over one, maybe I’ll give it a try towards the end of January, but other than the satisfaction of saying “ I told you so” to you, what would be the point?

Exactly my point

Sorry, but what point?
Snipe don’t feed on the salt marsh, they feed on invertebrates in pastures above the tideline by probing with their bills. When pastures freeze they can’t feed.
Woodcock feed almost exclusively on earthworms, you don’t find earthworms on a salt marsh and when the ground is frozen, probing for worms becomes impossible.
Both snipe and woodcock overwinter in the west of Britain and Ireland because we have a mild climate and the ground rarely freezes for long.
They will migrate locally to avoid frost if they can, but when you get a countrywide hard freeze they have literally nowhere to go and starve.
Numbers are only now recovering from the impact of the December 2010 freeze.
Both Snipe and woodcock are totally wild birds, they’re struggling with a number of challenges, they deserve a bit of respect and restraint from us at all times, but especially when they’re obviously struggling.

 

[Smellydog]

Not personally by hand,I don’t try, the dogs have picked up a fair few over the years. Anything over 3 days hard frost now and I leave them alone.
Jack snipe hold really tight, it wouldn’t be difficult to pop a net over one, maybe I’ll give it a try towards the end of January, but other than the satisfaction of saying “ I told you so” to you, what would be the point?

Sorry, but what point?
Snipe don’t feed on the salt marsh, they feed on invertebrates in pastures above the tideline by probing with their bills. When pastures freeze they can’t feed.
Woodcock feed almost exclusively on earthworms, you don’t find earthworms on a salt marsh and when the ground is frozen, probing for worms becomes impossible.
Both snipe and woodcock overwinter in the west of Britain and Ireland because we have a mild climate and the ground rarely freezes for long.
They will migrate locally to avoid frost if they can, but when you get a countrywide hard freeze they have literally nowhere to go and starve.
Numbers are only now recovering from the impact of the December 2010 freeze.
Both Snipe and woodcock are totally wild birds, they’re struggling with a number of challenges, they deserve a bit of respect and restraint from us at all times, but especially when they’re obviously struggling.

I must have a unique environment.
I have places with springs that don't freeze. Large areas that I don't advise to enter as you may not return. They get full of woodcock. I have marshes at the same location that rarely freezes hard over and the waders can be seen on there.
I have in freezing weather seen them congregated on warm spring fed streams.
I personally don't recall a really hard winter for decades.

One thing has always perplexed me. If, as some imply, they are suffering, is that not the kindest time to shoot them?

Also, is choosing to not shoot something a personal choice, if legal of course, instead of as you put it, " show some respect"?

Re your lovely dogs picking snipe up, was bird flue ruled out?

 

[Dunwaters]

I must have a unique environment.
I have places with springs that don't freeze. Large areas that I don't advise to enter as you may not return. They get full of woodcock. I have marshes at the same location that rarely freezes hard over and the waders can be seen on there.
I have in freezing weather seen them congregated on warm spring fed streams.
I personally don't recall a really hard winter for decades.

There were 2 severe cold spells in 2010, late December 2009 to early January 2010 and again November/Dec 2010
You’re right in that the birds will congregate in unfrozen areas, but their with feeding grounds not available, they lose condition rapidly.

One thing has always perplexed me. If, as some imply, they are suffering, is that not the kindest time to shoot them?

They are suffering because they can’t feed and are surviving on their fat and by sitting still . They won’t or can’t fly far.
You can do them the favour of humane dispatch if you want. I’ll give them a break and leave them alone.

Also, is choosing to not shoot something a personal choice, if legal of course, instead of as you put it, " show some respect"?

I don’t see it as being respectful to take advantage of game when it is struggling to survive. There are legal restrictions on hunting during harsh weather, but we should not need them. I shoot for sport, there’s no sport in shooting quarry struggling for survival.

Re your lovely dogs picking snipe up, was bird flue ruled out?

It’s happened quite a few times. When you get a fall of woodcock it takes them a while to recover from the migration flight. Push them and they just flutter a few yards, easy prey.
Jack snipe sit very tight and generally frequent the same patch of ground. Again, no problem for a sharp flushing dog to grab.
In hard weather snipe and woodcock are very reluctant to move and just don’t seem to have the energy to fly far.
These are consistent behaviours over many years but I have not had any birds checked for avian flu.
If they’re not injured I try to get the dog let them go.

 

[Smellydog]

There were 2 severe cold spells in 2010, late December 2009 to early January 2010 and again November/Dec 2010
You’re right in that the birds will congregate in unfrozen areas, but their with feeding grounds not available, they lose condition rapidly.

They are suffering because they can’t feed and are surviving on their fat and by sitting still . They won’t or can’t fly far.
You can do them the favour of humane dispatch if you want. I’ll give them a break and leave them alone.

I don’t see it as being respectful to take advantage of game when it is struggling to survive. There are legal restrictions on hunting during harsh weather, but we should not need them. I shoot for sport, there’s no sport in shooting quarry struggling for survival.

It’s happened quite a few times. When you get a fall of woodcock it takes them a while to recover from the migration flight. Push them and they just flutter a few yards, easy prey.
Jack snipe sit very tight and generally frequent the same patch of ground. Again, no problem for a sharp flushing dog to grab.
In hard weather snipe and woodcock are very reluctant to move and just don’t seem to have the energy to fly far.
These are consistent behaviours over many years but I have not had any birds checked for avian flu.
If they’re not injured I try to get the dog let them go.

Granted, shooting an unsporting bird is not on. I have not however encountered that, even during a cold spell. If during a cold spell they fly normally I'd say they are not suffering.
Maybe it would need a month or more. I haven't seen that for ages here.

Re the fall of woodcock, that is not to do with frozen ground but exertion. I have observed it many times and picked them up my self twice as a young man. I've also shot foxes taking advantage of said fall.

 

[scoby3030]

Interesting point re not shooting hares, is that because you dont like to eat them, numbers?

FWIW i dont shoot hares or rabbits, where i shoot there are insufficient numbers to cause a problem AFAIK.

In my part of Essex i would say hares are relatively scarce too, but i have seen videos on youtrube where there areliterarlly hundreds in fields cant recall where but pretty sure it was a uk video.

Used to enjoy a a well cooked Hare, I just prefer to see them going about there business these days.
One of our shoots has quite a few on, some lads take 1 or 2 but most don't bother.

S

 

[Smellydog]

Hare, fillets, breaded and fried is lovely.

 

[Dunwaters]

Granted, shooting an unsporting bird is not on. I have not however encountered that, even during a cold spell. If during a cold spell they fly normally I'd say they are not suffering.
Maybe it would need a month or more. I haven't seen that for ages here.

Re the fall of woodcock, that is not to do with frozen ground but exertion. I have observed it many times and picked them up my self twice as a young man. I've also shot foxes taking advantage of said fall.

Well Fcuuk me .
We agree on something….
It doesn’t take a month of hard weather for ducks or waders to feel the effects of hard weather. 5 days can do it.
I back off from wildfowl precisely because they are wild, it doesn’t take much pressure to tip them over the edge and reduce their population.

 

[Smellydog]

doesn’t take much pressure to tip them over the edge and reduce their population

Wouldn't know here, their numbers are almost plague lick. Geese and ducks everywhere. If anything they need thinning!

 

[Dunwaters]

Lucky you.

 

[countrryboy]

I agree with wot Dunwater has said.

Esp if ur inland and beating or picking up and flushing them. After 1 or 2 weeks hard frost, (and the ground seems to get far harder far quickier nowadays. I think soil just so saturated wet so often)
But u see them flushing and getting slower and slower or pitching in a short distance in front.
Things they rarely do in normal weather.
I was FT beating/picking up those 2 cold winters of 2010 and 11 as too hard to work.
Some off the guns were still shooting them and u could feel the breast bone sticking out, they really were struggling.
And getting alkwer and slower when flushed, not nice to see.
Really in cold weather like that ideally shoots should try to avoid even driving woods with high woodcock numbers, as its the disturbance causing them to expand energy they simply dont have.

I mind when i ran a wee diy shoot with decent woodcock numbers at times.
While i never banned shooting them i did urge restraint and occasionally if been a full moon in last few nights bwfore a shoot day i really would urge extreme restraint to let them rest up a bit.

We used to have some fantastic snipe drives 35+ yrs ago. Just not the same volume off snipe about nowadays.

I thing that did amaze me about snipe is just how much they can run on in front of u at times.
Never notice it normally walked up shooting.
But had the privaledge to shoot over and train with an Ftch hpr and u notice it far more.
I think the only way i would really shoot a woodcock or snipe now is if shot over a pointer.